if management can hire illegals, they can hire kids (crime, insurance, retire)

[cremebrulee]

Originally Posted by TigerLily24

The argument/rationale/justification I hear most often from parents today is that they want their kids to concentrate on school and the extra-curriculars that round out the college applications.

And I do see their point. Many parents do not want their kids to labor like they did. They don't have the same romanticized recollections of these endeavors that seem ever-present in their parents' memories.
They work so their kids don't have to.

Couple that with the hesitancy on the part of a LOT of employers to hire anyone under 18 and kids just don't work like they used to.

Professional kitchens particularly are dangerous. Employers simply do not want the risk.

That sort of work also often requires late hours that can interfere with sports practices that still go on through the summer even when school is not in session.
Neither employers nor parents want the headaches that come from having to schedule around these pursuits.

kitchens are not dangerous if the kids wash the dishes or work at replentishing the salad bars, and pick up dirty dishes and wipe the tables down....geeze Louise...

Dangerous....are you kidding me....they wouldn't be cooking...baking?????

everyone looks for excuses not to do things, instead of looking for the positive in doing something constructive and positive.....

Labored????? I worked part time....that isn't laboring....and still went to school, worked part time in the summer and was on the swim team....labor my foot.

[cremebrulee]

Originally Posted by crone

I have tried to hire neighborhood kids to help me with yard work. Took 10 years to find a kid whose father taught him to cut his own grass. They were delighted for him to earn 20$ a week cutting mine.

Most parents in the neighborhood did everything for the kids and did not want them doing yard work.

My grand kids started putting their dishes in the sink when they were tall enough to reach. They are taught and expected to do chores around the house. Just like their parents were.

We did not give allowance, pay for good grades or pay them to do household chores. They were part of a family and contributed to household. We did pay them what we would pay if we hired somebody. They babysat, were mother's helpers, ran a play school in the summers, the boy threw papers, cut grass, put dividing stripes in small parking lots.

They all did one sport, 2 after school activities, took part in church activities and made good grades.

Don't tell me school is harder. The girls each got 2 masters degrees and teach school.

I haven't seen the SAT or ACT scores climbing.

you are a breath of fresh air, thankyou!!!
and yup, I am unable to find a kid to help around the house, mow with a batter operated lawn mower, and help do things around the house....kids today are pampered and unable to do anything...to help.

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by HeyJude514

This is it in a nutshell. If there were no jobs here for them, they wouldn't be coming. Trump won't crack down on those hiring the illegals, though, because he's one of the guys doing it and benefiting from their cheap labor.

What Trump is doing is nothing more than dog whistle politics, and that is always a draw to a certain segment of the population. What you don't hear him saying is that he will crack down on those doing the hiring and put repeat offenders in jail. Why not? Aren't they breaking the law, too?

Where is the big populous movement to go after the guys who make illegal immigration desirable and possible to begin with?

<crickets>

Yes. Here is the deal: Illegal workers are hugely profitable. Hugely, as in billions of dollars. That's why nobody in the beltway is going to do anything substantial to change the status quo, and to be honest, nor are any governors. The borders will never be sealed, there will never be a program for "legal guest workers," there will never be a general amnesty program.

It doesn't matter who gets elected, there is too much money in keeping the illegals illegal.

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

kitchens are not dangerous if the kids wash the dishes or work at replentishing the salad bars, and pick up dirty dishes and wipe the tables down....geeze Louise...

Dangerous....are you kidding me....they wouldn't be cooking...baking?????

everyone looks for excuses not to do things, instead of looking for the positive in doing something constructive and positive.....

Labored????? I worked part time....that isn't laboring....and still went to school, worked part time in the summer and was on the swim team....labor my foot.

And you skipped the time issue, which is the main thing. Whose kids are going to be working the daily lunch shift in restaurants? Whose kids are going to be working the dinner shift every night instead of doing homework? Why would a restaurant have kids who are locked into "sweet times" when he can have adults that he can move around any day or time as business dictates?

[TrapperJohn]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

call it whatever you want...but kids today, not all but most, have no focus on how to even begin to be responsible.

I watched as my grand daughter, was asked by her father to go do something and she left the room, but got side tracked...she doesn't want for anything....she doesn't have to help clear the table, so when she gets up, her dishes remain on the table...she doesn't have to clean up after her pets or feed them, mom and dad take care of it...and she of course will not get a job b/c mom and dad have already started a college fund.

and I know there are a lot of parents out there the same way....

I know a man who he and his wife adopted their child, and they give her everything, she doesn't have to work...they are well to do, but what they don't understand is, it's not about "the money", it's about teaching a child to be independent and working for what you want instead of giving them everything. They have to learn how to do without....for God's sake...learn responsablity and awareness, not to mention how to focus.

Who raised YOUR kids? I thought kids learned how to be parents by watching THEIR parents...

[cremebrulee]

Originally Posted by TrapperJohn

Who raised YOUR kids? I thought kids learned how to be parents by watching THEIR parents...

well you thought wrong.....

[Feltdesigner]

I hope the OP knows this reflects poorly on his parenting skills.

Why did you raise your kids to raise softies?

[uggabugga]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

absolutely.....
I was talking to a woman yesterday....I told her my son, got up from the table, rinsed off his dishes, and placed them in the dishwasher after he asked to be excused. She said, my sink if full of dishes waiting for me when I get home...I'm going to have to try that, b/c I work full time and there is no excuse for that.

I replied..."no there isn't." "your kids are old enough for chores, like making their beds before they come down for breakfast, cleaning their rooms, doing dishes, etc". How in the world will kids learn to be mature, responsible and be able to do these things to help if someone gets sick? Or when they are married.

Kids need to feel useful, and to give them everything they want without working for it, doesn't earn them respect for any material thing.

totally agree.

when i was a kid there were things that iwanted desperately, like a shortwave radio, minibike, metal detector - and the only way i could get them, since my parents didn't spoil us, was to work for the money to buy them. in the meantime i would devour all the information i could about them from books and magazines, and spend hours thinking of all the things i could do when i finally had enough money to buy them, which in some ways was the best part. and when i did get them, i damn well took care of them, because it wasn't like more were just going to fall in my lap from the sky.

[TigerLily24]

Originally Posted by TrapperJohn

Who raised YOUR kids? I thought kids learned how to be parents by watching THEIR parents...

Well, as I alluded to in my first post, I know many parents are (still) rebelling against what they perceived to be heavy-handedness by their own parents and have made concerted efforts to not repeat those behaviors.

I do agree with the OP that kids must be taught manners and absolutely should contribute at home.
Many parents of school-aged kids really do not want their kids to grow up too fast (understandable) nor do they want them to feel like beasts of burden (worst case scenario).
Many are absolutely guilty of over-correcting in this regard.

That being said, it is extremely hard to argue that the kids are not alright when despite this seeming laxity, they are doing well in school, participate successfully in sports and other activities and are personable and loving.

As the saying goes, sometimes it is very hard to see the forest for the trees.

[cremebrulee]

Originally Posted by TigerLily24

Well, as I alluded to in my first post, I know many parents are (still) rebelling against what they perceived to be heavy-handedness by their own parents and have made concerted efforts to not repeat those behaviors.

I do agree with the OP that kids must be taught manners and absolutely should contribute at home.
Many parents of school-aged kids really do not want their kids to grow up too fast (understandable) nor do they want them to feel like beasts of burden (worst case scenario).
Many are absolutely guilty of over-correcting in this regard.

That being said, it is extremely hard to argue that the kids are not alright when despite this seeming laxity, they are doing well in school, participate successfully in sports and other activities and are personable and loving.

As the saying goes, sometimes it is very hard to see the forest for the trees.

it doesn't hurt a kid to work a little....I'm not talking child labor, but some serious part time jobs, each summer, and/or weekends...
I still had time to be social, date, and be in activities and my marks didn't suffer for it....

and yes, kids should be contributing at home, especially if both parents work.

I cannot tell you how many young parents, tell me, their kids do nothing, well whose fault is that?

Not to mention, it teaches them to be responsible, independent, and reliable....as well as respecting his parents enough to want to help out.

My kid, bought all his friends to the house...so, our house was the home they hung out at....
there were rules, there had to be....and they all were good kids, who listened, if they didn't, they knew they wouldn't be allowed to come back. Was I tough, yes, b/c they were all boys and didn't want them to think, it was ok to get me even a little upset.

My son is a great father, and my DIL is a fantastic mother....I'm proud of them....wish I had had parents like them....however, parents today, seem to want to keep their children stagnated in this precious little time warp that won't allow them to grow older. ? Maybe I'm wrong? I don't know, but I just see kids as being pampered way to much....and you don't get married so you have someone to take care of you, you become independent, so you chose wisely.