if management can hire illegals, they can hire kids (death, border, how much)

[cremebrulee]

Originally Posted by Driller1

We work with heavy equipment.........no burger flipping.

ahhh, then that is the reason....

[crone]

There are a ton of things kids can do to earn money that do not involve transportation or dangerous jobs.

"

[cremebrulee]

Originally Posted by crone

There are a ton of things kids can do to earn money that do not involve transportation or dangerous jobs.

"

yeah, like I said, people just look to excuse really bad parenting....making lazy kids....

[ChrisFromChicago]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

This country is going to hell fast....we're in the fast lane of decline, due to a loss of moral standards, and a respect for the law....

I always find this "going to hell" fast thing funny. I mean we are on a long slide down from the 80s with near record lows of Teen homicide, violence, rape, and pregnancy.


So you go about an entire rant about "work ethic" when your presumption is totally non-reflective of the easily available macro-economic data available to you with a quick search.


I mean how could you, with a straight face, argue lower moral standards when teens do less violence, drugs, and pregnancy than when i was a kid.

it makes no sense.

maybe your impression of teen youth is because you watch 80s movies on netflix?

[TigerLily24]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

yeah, keep on looking for excuses.....

pathetic....really....pathetic......I walked to work....only a mile, however, I walked....big deal, I'm still alive, and I worked in a restaurant....Good God, I swear, America has grown softer then I thought....

oh, and btw, my son, put himself thru college, he refused to take money from either me or his father....he worked 3 jobs....it was a community college...but still

where there is a will there is a way....even today, while I will always give he and his wife money, it is difficult for them to take it...very difficult....

I don't have to make excuses. My granddaughter works full time, goes to college and pays her own bills.
When she visits, she cooks meals for us, offers to take me out for meals and to the movies.
The fact remains that no one would hire her before she turned 18 and it wasn't for lack of her trying to get a job once she was old enough for working papers.
Her brother is 17 and now in the same position.
I've no doubt he will find something when he turns 18.

No one has the same exact experiences in life. Just because mine are different doesn't make them less accurate or true.

Anyway, off to get cash for the kid that mows my lawn.

[cremebrulee]

TigerLily24 I don't have to make excuses.

oh yes you do, and I was just about to have a conversation with you until this

Anyway, off to get cash for the kid that mows my lawn.

Just shows how evil and vindictive you can be....insult the person who you disagree with, hit them below the belt....yeah, that's real intelligent....a real nice thing to do....

[TheDusty]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

WRONG....

That's fine, no need to explain...

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

Moral standards are people who also obey the laws....they've got morals! In its descriptive sense, "morality" refers to personal or cultural values, codes of conduct or social mores. It does not connote objective claims of right or wrong, but only refers to that which is considered right or wrong. Descriptive ethics is the branch of philosophy which studies morality in this sense. Illegals, would counter that, to a philosophy that believes its all right to disobey laws.

This is a very Kantian moral philosophy, mixed in which statism. I suggest you look into the 'murderer at the door' problem with this sort of thinking. I don't normally condone the Godwin principle, but if you live in Nazi Germany, what is the moral standard? Handing over Jews or protecting them. The latter is both celebrated and was, at the time, illegal. If breaking the law (doing things illegally) is immoral, are people who protected those from death immoral?

And of course, it's unfair to use such a hyperbole based argument, but it makes it very clear what my point is. Laws don't reflect actual morality. There's nothing immoral about smoking a joint to unwind, but it's illegal. Following the law isn't an issue of morality 100% of the time. Of course, rape is illegal and not raping people is a moral thing to do (though it's technically inaction, and nothing can't have value).

Morality does reflect right and wrong, by the way. There are objective moral truths, like it's wrong to kill. Every society has a 'law' against what they call murder. What constitutes as murder can vary slightly, but there are rules in every culture against unjust killing. Thus, murder is immoral.

Also, you didn't address the concept of decaying moral standards, which is the basis of what I was asking. Again, no one ever has anything to back this up. Can't imagine why...

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

If illegals had morals and a strong humble desire to do what is right, they would not be here illegally.

I would describe this as being a gross over simplification.

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

Correct the sins of their parents? hey, parents during my childhood, including my foster parents, believed in strict discipline. And I'm proud of them and thankful for them.

Strict discipline is a vague phrase. That can mean anything to anybody. It has no value to me and I can't discuss it for this reason. Parents should teach their kids to be thoughtful, open minded, and respectful. These are what's important; though I recognize that anyone can disagree and assert things that are more important or decide one of the things I said was unimportant.

[cremebrulee]

Originally Posted by TheDusty

That's fine, no need to explain...



This is a very Kantian moral philosophy, mixed in which statism. I suggest you look into the 'murderer at the door' problem with this sort of thinking. I don't normally condone the Godwin principle, but if you live in Nazi Germany, what is the moral standard? Handing over Jews or protecting them. The latter is both celebrated and was, at the time, illegal. If breaking the law (doing things illegally) is immoral, are people who protected those from death immoral?

And of course, it's unfair to use such a hyperbole based argument, but it makes it very clear what my point is. Laws don't reflect actual morality. There's nothing immoral about smoking a joint to unwind, but it's illegal. Following the law isn't an issue of morality 100% of the time. Of course, rape is illegal and not raping people is a moral thing to do (though it's technically inaction, and nothing can't have value).

Morality does reflect right and wrong, by the way. There are objective moral truths, like it's wrong to kill. Every society has a 'law' against what they call murder. What constitutes as murder can vary slightly, but there are rules in every culture against unjust killing. Thus, murder is immoral.

Also, you didn't address the concept of decaying moral standards, which is the basis of what I was asking. Again, no one ever has anything to back this up. Can't imagine why...



I would describe this as being a gross over simplification.



Strict discipline is a vague phrase. That can mean anything to anybody. It has no value to me and I can't discuss it for this reason. Parents should teach their kids to be thoughtful, open minded, and respectful. These are what's important; though I recognize that anyone can disagree and assert things that are more important or decide one of the things I said was unimportant.

I would respond to this, however, it would be a waste of time....
no matter what I said, I'm wrong, your right...so be it....

[TigerLily24]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

oh yes you do, and I was just about to have a conversation with you until this




Just shows how evil and vindictive you can be....insult the person who you disagree with, hit them below the belt....yeah, that's real intelligent....a real nice thing to do....

Right.
Because someone having different life experiences and basically seeing the glass as half full rather than half empty is "evil and vindictive."

I am truly sorry that things are so hard where you are.

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by TheDusty

This is a very Kantian moral philosophy, mixed in which statism. I suggest you look into the 'murderer at the door' problem with this sort of thinking. I don't normally condone the Godwin principle, but if you live in Nazi Germany, what is the moral standard? Handing over Jews or protecting them. The latter is both celebrated and was, at the time, illegal. If breaking the law (doing things illegally) is immoral, are people who protected those from death immoral?

And of course, it's unfair to use such a hyperbole based argument, but it makes it very clear what my point is. Laws don't reflect actual morality. There's nothing immoral about smoking a joint to unwind, but it's illegal. Following the law isn't an issue of morality 100% of the time. Of course, rape is illegal and not raping people is a moral thing to do (though it's technically inaction, and nothing can't have value).

Morality does reflect right and wrong, by the way. There are objective moral truths, like it's wrong to kill. Every society has a 'law' against what they call murder. What constitutes as murder can vary slightly, but there are rules in every culture against unjust killing. Thus, murder is immoral. .

And there is the problem with saying for a Mexican father, "It's immoral for you to cross into the US against US law to work."

From the standpoint of being a father, morality lies in doing the best for his family. If he's a Christian, scripture says explicitly that a man who doesn't provide for his family is "worse than an infidel."

If it was immoral to cross the border...why are US companies willing to hire him? Clearly from his viewpoint, the law does not align with morality.