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Old 07-28-2015, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,064,576 times
Reputation: 21733

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby W-R View Post
Think "socialist" programs are un-American ?
Thanks for providing another opportunity to expose this Straw Man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby W-R View Post
Just give up your Social Security,...
The US government did not create Social Security. 35 of the States already had social security or pension programs before FDR illegally nationalized those programs.

I would point out that many of the State plans were better than the mess FDR created.

Only the illegal national government could create a plan that forces minimum wage workers to pay $96/month for $493 in monthly social security benefits, instead of paying $21/month for $1,600 in monthly benefits.

Explain the Court Plan and the Court Bill to everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby W-R View Post
Medicare,...

The following government policies, regulations or laws disenfranchised Millions of Americans and left them without the ability to obtain health insurance:


"Amounts paid by an employer on account of premiums on insurance on the life of the employee...may not exceed five per cent of the employee’s annual salary or wages determined without the inclusion of insurance and pension benefits."

Source: War Labor Reports, Reports and Decisions of the National War Labor Board (Washington, D.C.: The Bureau of National Affairs, 4, 1943) LXIV.

Source
: Office of Economic Stabilization, Regulations of the Part 4001 Relating to Wages and Salaries, Issued October 27, 1942; amended November 5 and November 30, 1942, Section 4001.1 (h) (2), War Labor Reports 4, XII.

Source: War Labor Reports, Reports and Decisions of the National War Labor Board, Section 1002.8, LXVIII.


"Premiums paid by an employer on policies of group life insurance without cash surrender value covering the lives of his employees, or on policies of group health or accident insurance...do not constitute salary if such premiums are deductible by the employer under Section 23(a) of the IRS Code."

Source: Public Law 83-591, August 16, 1954; Internal Revenue Code of 1954, Section 106. For more information on the 1986 Internal Revenue Code.

Unions have the right negotiate fringe benefits on behalf of employees

Source: Inland Steel Co. v. National Labor Relations Board. United Steel Workers Of America, C.I.O., et al. v. National Labor Relations Board; United States Court of Appeals Seventh Circuit.

"...pension and retirement plans constitute part of the subject matter of compulsory collective bargaining under the Act."

September 23, 1948. Writ of Certiorari Granted January 17, 1949. 170 F.2d 247 (1948)

"Following the 1949 Inland Steel decision by the Supreme Court, pensions became a mandatory bargaining topic and the subject of nearly all collective negotiations."

Source: www.nber.org/chapters/c7131.pdf


Resulting in the following abortion you call Medicare:


"Introduced by various House and Senate sponsors and subject to extensive hearings, the basic framework of part A began to reflect accommodations between the sponsors, the Administration and the American Hospital Association (AHA).

It ranged all the way from principles of institutional reimbursement, which has been pretty thoroughly already worked out in a general way for their own purposes between Blue Cross and the Hospital Association over a period of several years

The American Hospital Association has already nominated the Blue Cross organization for its membership, although some member hospitals will undoubtedly elect out of this arrangement. We have proceeded very far in the development of working arrangements with Blue Cross, although no formal approval as a fiscal intermediary has yet been given them."

Source: Report to Social Security Administration Staff on the Implementation of the Social Security Amendments of 1965, Robert M. Ball Commissioner, November 15, 1965



Medicare is another problem created by government to solve a problem created by government.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby W-R View Post
stop driving on public roads and highways,...
That is a function of Opportunity Costs and local and State government, not federal government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby W-R View Post
take your kids out of public schools,...

Public schools are actually communist, not socialist.Prior to the unconstitutional power grab by the government, your public schools educated the people who led the US through its 2nd Level Economy, into the 3rd Level Economy and on into the 4th Level Economy.

Since the federal government has interfered with the States and local governments, beginning in the 1970s, the US has failed to move into the 5th Level Economy, and is about 40-45 years away, once it stops interfering.

I wouldn't be proud of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby W-R View Post
never call the police or fire department,... don't flush your toilet into the sewer system...
Again, those are a matter of Opportunity Costs, not socialism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby W-R View Post
don't use the Postal Service,

Tell us all about the USPS and its financial problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby W-R View Post
Oh, and get off the internet, because the U.S. government
created that, too.
Actually, it was the US Military that created the internet for purposes of war, specifically secure voice and data communications.

Also, it was initiated privately at MIT and would have come to fruition with or without government involvement.
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Old 07-28-2015, 07:58 AM
 
3,537 posts, read 2,725,602 times
Reputation: 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
Do you realize that, on an average, you get $1.20 back in SS for every $1.00 you've contributed (if you are white; if you are a minority, you get less than $1.00 back)? For a risk-free "investment", that's pretty good. Never mind Medicare, you haven't paid anywhere close to the payments that Medicare will make on your behalf.

Mick
20% return over 35 years (being generous more like 45 years) ? a .57% annual ROR???

I can invest that money to grow at a much better pace. That is a terrible return in fact.

the thirty year treasury currently yields 2.97%
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,064,576 times
Reputation: 21733
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
Do you realize that, on an average, you get $1.20 back in SS for every $1.00 you've contributed (if you are white; if you are a minority, you get less than $1.00 back)? For a risk-free "investment", that's pretty good.
Do you realize that Social Security is an insurance plan?

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Old 07-28-2015, 08:02 AM
 
3,537 posts, read 2,725,602 times
Reputation: 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Do you realize that Social Security is an insurance plan?

It better be. Because if it is an investment it is a terrible one.
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:05 AM
 
10,829 posts, read 5,401,470 times
Reputation: 4710
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
Do you realize that, on an average, you get $1.20 back in SS for every $1.00 you've contributed
You should get a lot more than that.

Just try using a savings interest calculator where you contribute money over a 45 year period.

Not to mention the fact that some people contribute, but don't live long enough to collect.
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:14 AM
 
17,343 posts, read 9,157,332 times
Reputation: 11787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby W-R V
Think "socialist" programs are un-American ?
I think there is a Big movement to attempt to make Socialist Bernie Sanders 'acceptable' by convincing people we are a Socialist Nation now. Kids might even buy it as they are indoctrinated into this garbage in our Schools and Universities.
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Planet Earth, Milky Way
335 posts, read 374,156 times
Reputation: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerby W-R View Post
Think "socialist" programs are un-American ?

That's fine.
Just give up your Social Security, Medicare, stop driving
on public roads and highways, take your kids out of
public schools, never call the police or fire department,
don't use the Postal Service, don't flush your toilet into
the sewer system...
Oh, and get off the internet, because the U.S. government
created that, too.
The democrats also created the federal reserve act which gave a private bank the control of our monetary system along with the federal income tax act the next year. Public School system is a joke with kids graduating and not being able to read or write. Social Security and medicare is broke. Look at Greece a socialist empire destroyed. Look at california. A broken state with business and tax payers leaving at an alarming rate. Enjoy california you belong there.
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:21 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,622 posts, read 44,381,322 times
Reputation: 13555
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
Do you realize that, on an average, you get $1.20 back in SS for every $1.00 you've contributed
No. You're wrong. SS is a LOSING deal for most workers. They'll get LESS back than they paid in SS taxes. And while that's a recent development for the middle class, that's been true for at least 20 years for higher income earners:
Quote:
"Most high-income workers started getting less in benefits than they paid in taxes in the 1990s, according to data from the Social Security Administration"
Social Security is a LOSING deal for most workers - AP
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:28 AM
 
3,537 posts, read 2,725,602 times
Reputation: 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No. You're wrong. SS is a LOSING deal for most workers. They'll get LESS back than they paid in SS taxes. And while that's a recent development for the middle class, that's been true for at least 20 years for higher income earners:

Social Security is a LOSING deal for most workers - AP
Correct, it is a welfare program.
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:48 AM
 
698 posts, read 584,333 times
Reputation: 1899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwahfromtheheart View Post
No it's not.

Infrastructure is the means in which any sovereign nation operates, performs diplomacy, moves military, etc. Claiming public safety (namely fire and police) as some sort of socialist program is so far fetched I don't even know where to begin. Let's just say you need somebody to make sure that unowned assets (or assets owned by government) can not put you in jeopardy, and you need an enforcer of your laws.
You are totally incorrect, the very notion of public safety or public anything is socialist. If you removed all traces of socialism, you would only get the police and fire protection that you could afford to pay for, privately built roads only used by the owners, etc.

What exactly do you think socialism is?
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