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Old 07-28-2015, 09:52 AM
 
13,899 posts, read 6,407,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
Got a link to this 'liberal side'?
Why do you on the Left always deny what you actually support? Why is there never any honesty?
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:54 AM
 
6,940 posts, read 9,651,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
Got a link to this 'liberal side'?

Which one you want? The economics or the popular side?



A progressive philosopher just published a book on the progressive case against immigration.



The Progressive Case for Reducing Immigration | Californians For Population Stabilization
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:56 AM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,981,037 times
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It's obvious to see that since nothing is being done about illegal immigration, there has to be reason why.

There are multiple segments on the left:

Liberals who have a one world vision, with the caveat that the US is the bad guy and responsible for all the poverty in the world, especially in Latin America (and the US stole the southwest from Mexico), therefore it is only fair that we take care of poor Mexicans and Central Americans

Hispanic activists: want the US to be shaped in their image...the more native Spanish speakers, the better...more power over elections, more control over who gets services, etc.

Democratic Party: sees Hispanic as largely Dem voters and therefore encourages more

and on the right, you have those who want to cheap labor to undercut everyone already here..big corps, agribusiness.

I firmly believe that the majority of Americans don't fall in any of these 4 segments, but these groups have more pull on elected officials.

The other issue is that when you speak out against illegal immigration, you get called a racist by the left, so even if you are left leaning like me, it's subject you approach carefully in certain company. The "xenophobe" label comes out very quickly. And then you get a response, similar to some people on this forum, "why do you deserve the benefits of this country, simply because you were born here?" Underlying a lot of this is a real resentment towards the success and comfort of the American middle class.
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:59 AM
 
2,083 posts, read 1,615,858 times
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While there may be a few members of the right-wing who profit from cheap labor, the vast majority of the right wing is staunchly opposed to illegal immigration. Its why that hack Trump has taken the lead in the GOP field; his comments about immigration and securing the border resonates with actual Republican voters.

Its been primarily the left-wing who has been pushing for more immigration. Amnesty, sanctuary cities, opposition to voter ID laws, the Dream act, in-state tuition for non-citizens, are all coming from the left. To say the right-wing supports open borders is laughable.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:00 AM
 
34,620 posts, read 21,499,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
Got a link to this 'liberal side'?
Do you consider yourself a liberal?

If so, do you believe we should deport anyone who did not cross our border legally?
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,253,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
Got a link to this 'liberal side'?
Go read the immigration bill that passed the Senate. There's your liberal side of it.
Increased H1-B and a new W Visa for unskilled workers and their families.

The Dems are just as much for open borders as the Repubs.

Globalism my friend. They will flood the US with immigrants.

Our standard of living must come down while emerging nations' standard of living rise.
We meet in the middle and all become "global workers" in a global economy all making the same meager living.

NWO is real. You can do 1 of 2 things. Deny and ignore it or adjust and adapt.
The government has their plans and your vote means nothing in the scheme of things.

We keep hearing 10 million illegals. We've been hearing that for over a decade.
Do you really believe that number has been stagnant for over a decade ?
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:04 AM
 
4,739 posts, read 4,421,230 times
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Limited government to me means - that the US government should not interfere with the rights of a employee and employer to enter into an agreement for a job.

The purpose of a border is not to keep workers out, but to keep criminals out. If you make workers into criminals, the real criminals find it easy to sneak through.


Open borders would be -

If a worker wants to come into the United States and work, and the worker has a job setup that can support him - then the government only role is to do a criminal background check and give him a tax id so he can pay his taxes.

The worker must make enough to not qualify for government handouts (welfare, etc) but would qualify for healthcare/etc.


I for one don't want the US Govt telling me how much I should pay or where is the best place to find qualified workers for the right price.





Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
I don't know what to say other than this is bound to start controversy. I'm not sure if this would run good with the immigration voter block.






Bernie Sanders: The Vox conversation - Vox
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:07 AM
 
4,739 posts, read 4,421,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post

Our standard of living must come down while emerging nations' standard of living rise.
We meet in the middle and all become "global workers" in a global economy all making the same meager living.
you really don't understand economics do you?

Immigration is a reflection of a growing economy and the need for labor. Our standard of living has risen significantly during periods of high immigration.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:08 AM
 
698 posts, read 584,904 times
Reputation: 1899
Open borders, unlimited immigration and emigration have long been part of the Libertarian platform. So, yes very right wing and clearly in line with a true pro freedom, limited government philosophy. The situation gets mucked up by the nativists and conservatives that only play lip service to the notion of freedom. They support the freedom of a business owner to not serve certain customers but want the government to have the power to dictate who a business can and can't hire as an employee.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:09 AM
 
6,940 posts, read 9,651,373 times
Reputation: 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago View Post
Limited government to me means - that the US government should not interfere with the rights of a employee and employer to enter into an agreement for a job.

The purpose of a border is not to keep workers out, but to keep criminals out. If you make workers into criminals, the real criminals find it easy to sneak through.


Open borders would be -

If a worker wants to come into the United States and work, and the worker has a job setup that can support him - then the government only role is to do a criminal background check and give him a tax id so he can pay his taxes.

The worker must make enough to not qualify for government handouts (welfare, etc) but would qualify for healthcare/etc.


I for one don't want the US Govt telling me how much I should pay or where is the best place to find qualified workers for the right price.

Wholeheartedly agree

Open borders is not laissez faire immigration. It's just non discriminatory immigration that does away with quotas. As long as you pay a tax to enter and have some form of ID for the government to know who you are, you should be allowed to come in. You just can't come in and claim status in the US. That's not how immigration operates. Even Ellis Island didn't work in that capacity.
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