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On my phone. Simply google anti-GMO activists killing children for an eye opener.
The fact is scientists in the field overwhelmingly are in favor of golden rice and other GMO foods. The fact is 1500-2000 mothers will bury their children today due to vitamin A deficiency.
Well I guess if it is on the internet, then it must be true.
Given that beta carotene is not synthesized into retinol/retinal/retinoic acid in the under 5-6 year range, those 1500-2000 mothers would probably still be burying their children today due to vitamin A deficiency.
The problem is this.
When golden rice was created, it was not understood that infant metabolism could not convert beta carotene (or any carotene) into vitamin A. It was done in the best of intentions, to cut infant mortality in developing nations with low consumption of vitamin A bearing foods (both plant and animal products). However wind the clock forward 20 odd years and the solution (golden rice) does not solve the problem hypovitaminosis of vitamin A in infants. Furthermore diets that are low in actual or precursor vitamin A are also low in fats, Vitamin A is fat soluble, precursors require lipids for conversion to vitamin A. So even with golden rice it it recommended to supplement populations at risk with actual vitamin A. If, by necessity, you're going to supplement vitamin A, why waste your time converting your crop strains to a precursor generating crop strain that still requires supplementation? Why not just marginally increase the supplementation rate? Especially as local growing conditions may result in lower yields, or be more prone to local pests than locally grown strains (which are specifically developed to meet the environmental conditions). Starvation will kill people a lot faster and in more numbers than risk of vitamin A deficiencies.
"Anti-science" would be not incorporating more recent data into the argument to fulfill an agenda (and I'm not blaming the OP for this, they're not an expert in human digestion and metabolism). Fact is a lot of money was invested into the golden rice, and obviously those people want some return. I've not seen any study (and this is telling) that concludes that in the under 5 age range golden rice will have any appreciable benefit.
So I'm not opposed to Golden Rice because it's GM, I'm opposed to shoving Golden Rice on the developing world because it will not solve the problem, and may create additional problems that currently do not exist that are more significant.
The point of golden rice is that it's not really feasible to give everyone enough vitamin A just through supplements.
Younger kids don't convert carotenes as well as older kids, and everyone converts it better with a diet higher in fat. Vitamin A itself helps, too, yes. Intestinal parasites in many developing areas don't help the cause.
None of that seems to be a good argument for banning golden rice or burning fields full of it, as has happened before. Most of the people opposing it seem to be of the opinion that it's bad just because of what it is. It's a complex problem, and it's probably best to have all available tools when tackling it. Blanket banning just because nothing is a panacea seems hasty to me, especially when further work along the same lines could possibly produce something even better than what we have now.
If this particular crop isn't the answer to this problem, then so be it. We'll find something better. I just wish the activists would stop stepping on the toes of those who are actually trying to help.
It is overwhelmingly the left though there are anti-GMO nuts on the right.
This is not true in my experience.
Most of the people I know who are non-GMO kind of nutos are conservatives. They also don't like vaccines and think we should all eat a Paleo diet and hunt and pose with lots of pictures of their kids and themselves with guns and shooting targets and such. They also are the "prepping" types.
And FWIW, I see nothing wrong with the diets and hunting and guns and prepping. I don't like the idiocy though of the anti-vaccination crowd and I'm kind of in the middle on GMOs. I do think we should know if we have GMOs in our food and where the food comes from.
So as the previous poster said, this is an issue that crosses the political spectrum.
The point of golden rice is that it's not really feasible to give everyone enough vitamin A just through supplements.
You kidding me, you can synthesize Vitamin A in the lab from beta-ionone and produce it by the barrel, how do you think that hand and body lotions get it? Liver or milk extraction from animals? You only need 900micrograms per day, how many daily doses would a 55 gallon drum deliver?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlAndSparrow
Younger kids don't convert carotenes as well as older kids, and everyone converts it better with a diet higher in fat. Vitamin A itself helps, too, yes. Intestinal parasites in many developing areas don't help the cause.
Neonatal metabolism is entirely dedicated to one food source for the first 24 months, only after that time does it begin to change towards an adult diet. The critical moment for getting high availability Vit A is right at the time of weaning and for a few years afterwards, which is where we see the highest infant mortality from hypovitaminosis of Vit A.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlAndSparrow
None of that seems to be a good argument for banning golden rice or burning fields full of it, as has happened before. Most of the people opposing it seem to be of the opinion that it's bad just because of what it is. It's a complex problem, and it's probably best to have all available tools when tackling it. Blanket banning just because nothing is a panacea seems hasty to me, especially when further work along the same lines could possibly produce something even better than what we have now.
Which means we agree, I'm not saying we ban it, I'm saying that the solution is not a solution, so lets stop saying it is trying to advertize it as being a solution and actually get around to the solution. Vitamin A is not beta carotene, if you want to GM the thing GM it to make Retinol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlAndSparrow
If this particular crop isn't the answer to this problem, then so be it. We'll find something better. I just wish the activists would stop stepping on the toes of those who are actually trying to help.
Well there's activists on both sides of this, there are the activists who want to recoup their investment (and make some money), and those that just want blanket bans. The issue with this crop is to use an analogy. You're 5 gallons of gas from the gas station. A guy comes along in a truck with 2 gallons of gas equivalent of diesel and a diesel engine, and then hailing himself as your savior. Well in reality you're still not at the gas station, and to take advantage of the diesel you need to do an engine swap, the choice is take him up on his offer, or just wait for someone with 5 gallons of gas.
How many thousands of mothers have buried their children since I starte this thread? The Luddites and conspiracy theorists need to be stopped. Children are dying en masse.
No, it won't save the world from vitamin A deficiency but in many parts of the world, the Philippines is one of those parts, it can make one hell of a difference.
I'm all for golden rice to end hunger. That said, protein/fat is also necessary, and sanitary special-bred insects would be a cheap source of that. But it sounds "icky", so of course it'll never be considered. I've had insect dishes before though, and they were quite delicious.
Most of the people I know who are non-GMO kind of nutos are conservatives. They also don't like vaccines and think we should all eat a Paleo diet and hunt and pose with lots of pictures of their kids and themselves with guns and shooting targets and such. They also are the "prepping" types.
And FWIW, I see nothing wrong with the diets and hunting and guns and prepping. I don't like the idiocy though of the anti-vaccination crowd and I'm kind of in the middle on GMOs. I do think we should know if we have GMOs in our food and where the food comes from.
So as the previous poster said, this is an issue that crosses the political spectrum.
If I did this thread again it would not have an ideological component in the title. Though I still think think that unlike the anti-vaccine group, which tend to be religious conservatives the anti-GMO group tend to be anti corporate leftists.
The important thing is to stop the anti GMO hysteria and start saving lives. The anti-GMO nuts are a simple annoyance in the Western world but in the developing world their actions are deadly.
One science organization after another has supported GMOs.
That means nothing when science is purchased for profit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious
So what is the difference between changing a crop at the gene level or doing the same thing via selective breeding?
I am not being sarcastic I just wonder what the difference is?
You can selectively breed fish with tomatoes?
How do you do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir
Well...
Given that beta carotene is not synthesized into retinol/retinal/retinoic acid in the under 5-6 year range, those 1500-2000 mothers would probably still be burying their children today due to vitamin A deficiency.
The problem is this.
When golden rice was created, it was not understood that infant metabolism could not convert beta carotene (or any carotene) into vitamin A. It was done in the best of intentions, to cut infant mortality in developing nations with low consumption of vitamin A bearing foods (both plant and animal products). However wind the clock forward 20 odd years and the solution (golden rice) does not solve the problem hypovitaminosis of vitamin A in infants. Furthermore diets that are low in actual or precursor vitamin A are also low in fats, Vitamin A is fat soluble, precursors require lipids for conversion to vitamin A. So even with golden rice it it recommended to supplement populations at risk with actual vitamin A. If, by necessity, you're going to supplement vitamin A, why waste your time converting your crop strains to a precursor generating crop strain that still requires supplementation? Why not just marginally increase the supplementation rate? Especially as local growing conditions may result in lower yields, or be more prone to local pests than locally grown strains (which are specifically developed to meet the environmental conditions). Starvation will kill people a lot faster and in more numbers than risk of vitamin A deficiencies.
"Anti-science" would be not incorporating more recent data into the argument to fulfill an agenda (and I'm not blaming the OP for this, they're not an expert in human digestion and metabolism). Fact is a lot of money was invested into the golden rice, and obviously those people want some return. I've not seen any study (and this is telling) that concludes that in the under 5 age range golden rice will have any appreciable benefit.
So I'm not opposed to Golden Rice because it's GM, I'm opposed to shoving Golden Rice on the developing world because it will not solve the problem, and may create additional problems that currently do not exist that are more significant.
So what is the difference between changing a crop at the gene level or doing the same thing via selective breeding?
I am not being sarcastic I just wonder what the difference is?
In China, geneticists have created a new breed of cow that can produce human breast milk. They took the gene for breast milk from humans and spliced it into a cow. They are breeding the cows now to create a large enough herd to begin mass production.
This could never be done through selective breeding. We could breed cows for 100,000 years and they would never be able to produce human breast milk.
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