Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
More than likely they will expand the acceptable amount of forms of ID.
Long and short, this is what the ruling is about.
I'm not in love with that idea because it seems to me that as long as only one person on the registered voters list, with that name, wants to vote, where's the harm?
Two elections supervisors are taking action after an NBC2 investigation uncovers flawed record keeping and human error allowing people who are not citizens of the United States to vote.
No one knows how widespread this problem is, because county election supervisors have no way to track non-citizens who live here.
So NBC2 did something election officials never thought to do, and found them on our own.
"I vote every year," Hinako Dennett told NBC2.
The Cape Coral resident is not a US citizen, yet she's registered to vote.
NBC2 found Dennett after reviewing her jury excusal form. She told the Clerk of Court she couldn't serve as a juror because she wasn't a U.S. citizen.
We found her name, and nearly a hundred others like her, in the database of Florida registered voters.
-----------------------
Quote:
the hanging chad and what counted as a vote was a much bigger issue that election.
Maybe, maybe not. What is important is that steps were taken to eliminate those issues. It's besides the point as I'm using the Florida election as an example because it was close.
It exists, the extent is the only question. This is from one small county in Florida.
-----------------------
Maybe, maybe not. What is important is that steps were taken to eliminate those issues. It's besides the point as I'm using the Florida election as an example because it was close.
That is with voter registration, why is it that gets ignored by those who cry for voter IDs for only those who vote in person? Why not require proof of citizenship at registration and crack down on that? Which properly checking to make sure those who register are in fact citizens and residents is the best way to fix that problem. All the photo ID does at the election is gives right wingers a warm fuzzy feeling and helps suppress voters.
And as I have said many times now, the hanging chad and what counted as a vote played a bigger part in that election that any voter fraud. Do you have any idea how many votes that people cast that were thrown out because of a chad? The answer is 175,000 votes weren't counted.
Now remind me again how it is the in person voter fraud that we should be concerned about and not the ones that receive the ballots voter fraud?
why is it that gets ignored by those who cry for voter IDs for only those who vote in person?
Certainly not ignored by me but the very first thing that is required to prevent voter fraud is to ID the voter. How you do that for absentee voters becomes very problematic and realistically the only way to do it is through biometrics. Finger print for registration and on the ballot etc.
Quote:
Why not require proof of citizenship at registration and crack down on that?
I'm all for indicating on ID if you are legal citizen.
What I don't understand is why you are trying to over complicate this. The vast majority of the population has a state issued ID. The requirements for the state issued ID are going to be the same for determining proof of citizenship or some national ID. Why bother when youalready have these services in place ID AND can register to vote at same time. It's one shot deal for something most of already do anyway.
Quote:
Now remind me again how it is the in person voter fraud that we should be concerned about and not the ones that receive the ballots voter fraud?
Appears the primary issue was not the hanging chad but double votes.
More than 113,000 voters cast ballots for two or more presidential candidates. Of those, 75,000 chose Mr. Gore and a minor candidate; 29,000 chose Mr. Bush and a minor candidate.
In any event there was steps taken to eliminate this, let's move onto the fraud.
Certainly not ignored by me but the very first thing that is required to prevent voter fraud is to ID the voter. How you do that for absentee voters becomes very problematic and realistically the only way to do it is through biometrics. Finger print for registration and on the ballot etc.
All fingerprinting does is tell you that the one who registered is the one who voted, all that does is create a very expensive program that doesn't really solve any issue. Or as we call it in Congress, government waste.
Quote:
I'm all for indicating on ID if you are legal citizen.
What I don't understand is why you are trying to over complicate this. The vast majority of the population has a state issued ID. The requirements for the state issued ID are going to be the same for determining proof of citizenship or some national ID. Why bother when you already have these services in place ID AND can register to vote at same time. It's one shot deal for something most of already do anyway.
Then we are back to the Federal Photo IDs that would be given out to every legal citizen for free. A federal ID would mean it is valid in any state you registered to vote in because it would show that you are in fact a citizen of the US.
Quote:
Appears the primary issue was not the hanging chad but double votes.
In any event there was steps taken to eliminate this, let's move onto the fraud.
That is the thing, though double voting was about the hanging chad. But that doesn't change they threw out 175,000 votes from people who legally voted in that election to help Bush win an election. No amount of in person voter fraud can amount to that kind of voter fraud. The biggest issue of voter fraud happens on the collecting side of votes, not the casting side.
All fingerprinting does is tell you that the one who registered is the one who voted, all that does is create a very expensive program that doesn't really solve any issue.
Firstly you are going to require fingerprints in person to apply for the absentee ballot in addition to a valid photo ID. If you want to address absentee voter fraud that is the only viable solution. Again the only way to address voter fraud is to ID the voter, there is no other way.
Quote:
Then we are back to the Federal Photo IDs that would be given out to every legal citizen for free.
There is no benefit of this is over the state ID and a whole bunch or reasons it's a bad idea. One of the complaints is the difficulty, your suggestion is only making things more difficult and more expensive. What is the point? Here's the benefits of the state ID:
Most people already have one, it's something they are going to do anyway.
Infrastructure is already in place, no need to duplicate services.
You can register to vote when obtaining it.
If you don't have ID and need it to vote you get a free shiny new ID which you need anyway.
What benefit does a federal ID provide? It has to be the dumbest suggestion I've heard yet.
Quote:
That is the thing, though double voting was about the hanging chad. But that doesn't change they threw out 175,000 votes from people who legally voted in that election to help Bush win an election.
The 113K double votes is included in the 175K, you can't possibly count them. When those are eliminated Bush still wins according to numerous studies on the issue although it is still very close.
Firstly you are going to require fingerprints in person to apply for the absentee ballot in addition to a valid photo ID. If you want to address absentee voter fraud that is the only viable solution. Again the only way to address voter fraud is to ID the voter, there is no other way.
There is no benefit of this is over the state ID and a whole bunch or reasons it's a bad idea. One of the complaints is the difficulty, your suggestion is only making things more difficult and more expensive. What is the point? Here's the benefits of the state ID:
Most people already have one, it's something they are going to do anyway.
Infrastructure is already in place, no need to duplicate services.
You can register to vote when obtaining it.
If you don't have ID and need it to vote you get a free shiny new ID which you need anyway.
What benefit does a federal ID provide? It has to be the dumbest suggestion I've heard yet.
The 113K double votes is included in the 175K, you can't possibly count them. When those are eliminated Bush still wins according to numerous studies on the issue although it is still very close.
Actually quite the opposite, a federal ID would make it much more simple, it would be an ID that was good in all 50 states and would be the needed proof to prove that you are in fact a citizen and the photo on it was indeed you.
Why wouldn't you want to make it more simple rather than having 50 duplicate IDs that can only sometimes be used in other states.
Well now I am curious, you say a federal ID is a dumb suggestion, yet we see people on here posting that countries like Kenya require a federal ID to vote.
You still have 62,000 votes that didn't get counted, which the majority of those votes would have gone to Gore. You are defending voter fraud on the collecting and counting side, but somehow a photo ID to prevent nonexistent in person voter fraud will somehow fix all our voter fraud problems....now that has to be the dumbest suggestion I have ever heard.
Why wouldn't you want to make it more simple rather than having 50 duplicate IDs that can only sometimes be used in other states.
Because you are just duplicating what is already available and adding something extra, the only benefit you have provided is cross state validity but that can be accomplished with the state ID's. They are in essence a federal ID because they need to follow federal guidelines.
Here's the benefits of federal ID, add to this list if you want.
Cross state validity
Benefits of the state ID:
Most people already have one, it's something they are going to do anyway.
Infrastructure is already in place, no need to duplicate services.
You can register to vote when obtaining it.
If you don't have ID and need it to vote you get a free shiny new ID which you need anyway.
Clearly the state ID outweighs the benefits of federal ID.
Quote:
You still have 62,000 votes that didn't get counted, which the majority of those votes would have gone to Gore.
False, multiple studies suggest Bush would of still won although it was close. Some of the margins were as little as 100 votes.
Quote:
You are defending voter fraud on the collecting and counting side,
I'm not defending at all, that's ridiculous it happened in the first place.
Quote:
nonexistent in person voter fraud
You can keep repeating this as often as you want but the fact is no one knows the extent of it. This is not crime like murder where we have dead body and know someone was murdered. You have to stop it before it occurs and the only reliable way to do that is to ID the voter.
Because you are just duplicating what is already available and adding something extra, the only benefit you have provided is cross state validity but that can be accomplished with the state ID's. They are in essence a federal ID because they need to follow federal guidelines.
Here's the benefits of federal ID, add to this list if you want.
Cross state validity
Benefits of the state ID:
Most people already have one, it's something they are going to do anyway.
Infrastructure is already in place, no need to duplicate services.
You can register to vote when obtaining it.
If you don't have ID and need it to vote you get a free shiny new ID which you need anyway.
Clearly the state ID outweighs the benefits of federal ID.
False, multiple studies suggest Bush would of still won although it was close. Some of the margins were as little as 100 votes.
I'm not defending at all, that's ridiculous it happened in the first place.
You can keep repeating this as often as you want but the fact is no one knows the extent of it. This is not crime like murder where we have dead body and know someone was murdered. You have to stop it before it occurs and the only reliable way to do that is to ID the voter.
So someone could use their Idaho ID as their ID when voting in Texas if that is where they now live because they have a valid ID in another state already? That same infrastructure could be used to aid making federal IDs as well for legal citizens. It would go above the capability of a state ID.
If a state ID somehow outweighs the benefits of a federal ID, then why do right wingers like to champion other countries that require a federal ID to vote?
No, it is speculation on who would have won, though it is clear that out of those 175K votes that were thrown out, the majority of them went to Gore. That was an example of voter fraud, that is the kind of voter fraud we should be trying to prevent.
Well you can keep looking for the boogieman or you can actually focus on real voter fraud which happens on the collection side, not the in person voter fraud side. That is seriously one of the silliest things I have ever heard anyone to be worried about.
But I get it, you just want to feel all warm and fuzzy and pretend like something is being done, therefore requiring a photo ID for those who vote in person somehow stops something you can't even prove is happening in the first place. Congratulations on solving a fictional problem.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
