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Old 08-11-2015, 02:31 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,639,943 times
Reputation: 20027

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag3.14 View Post
Gun laws have be nation wide.
it wont matter. and in fact many gun laws ARE nationwide. for instance if you want to own an automatic fire weapon, you first have to get an FFL, before you can legally purchase say a full auto AK47. and yet i would be willing to bet that there are quite the number of gang members that have in their possession full auto AK47s, and NO FFL. nice try but you have alreayd failed in your argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
These mass shootings are a gun problem in the same sense that drunk driving is an automobile problem.

DWI has been reduced by going after drunk drivers.

Get these psycho loons out of circulation and the shootings will stop.
agreed, the problem however is locating them, and then legally removing them from society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag3.14 View Post
Can you imagine how many bank robberies there would be if "robbery" were as legal as owning a gun?

You never ever completely eliminate crime by making things illegal - that is the insanely basic point that several posters seem not to understand (with their responses about cocaine or some other illogical retort). We will never ever completely eliminate gun crime in the US either, nor should the goal be to eradicate guns completely from society, but to suggest that "laws" don't or can't work at all is simply ridiculous.
if bank robbery were to be made legal, then it technically would not robbery now would it? but the fact is that more gun laws only take firearms out of the hands of law abiding citizens, criminals still get their guns on the black market. in fact criminals laugh at new gun laws, and even encourage them because they know then that law abiding citizens will have fewer guns in their possession.

if laws worked, then we would have no crime. people would say, gee robbing this bank is illegal, so i wont do it. if we are going to really try and stop crime, then what needs to happen is we stop coddling criminals once they are convicted, and give them very long prison sentences. so if someone who is twenty now commits a crime using a gun, then they should be 40 before they get out of prison. no deals, no time off for good behavior, no parole, you serve the entire sentence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Yes, finally someone on here who understands. New gun laws will not completely eliminate gun related crime. But reducing firearm related homicides from 11,000 people a year to 5,000 or 3,000 would be a massive improvement. America is a first world nation, a nation founded by brilliant, educated, civilized people. Our homicide rate is far to high for a country as great as this. The American people deserve better.
as i said before, if new gun laws reduced crime, then places like chicago, los angeles, san francisco, and other places that have large numbers of gun laws should be paradises. but they arent. why? because criminals DONT CARE ABOUT GUN LAWS. they get their guns illegally in the first place. if they get caught with a gun they shouldnt have, they dont care as its a small time crime. the go to prison, do their 2-3 years,5 in some places, and are out again on the street looking for another illegal gun to use when committing another crime. if you want to make a difference, as i have noted before as well, stiffen up the penalties for having an illegal firearm in your possession. instead of a few years, make the sentence 20 years, no parole, you do the entire stretch, and that is just for the gun. if you commit a crime with that gun, then you add on another 10 years. make it to where criminals do not want to go back to prison as well. make them break rocks for ten hours a day, or other such hard labor. no more giving them the comforts of life in prison, they have no rights, they should not get cable tv, and porn, and other niceties of life, that is not what prison is for.
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Old 08-11-2015, 02:31 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,594 posts, read 1,227,432 times
Reputation: 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
So how do you explain the violent crime rate difference between these two cities which border each other and both have the same firearm laws ?

//www.city-data.com/crime/crime...-Michigan.html

//www.city-data.com/crime/crime...-Michigan.html

There is virtually none in Grosse Pointe, and well Detroit speaks for itself.
Poverty and culture. Unless you have a good idea on how to make young black males not want to kill each other, this is something we will not be able to change. We can eliminate the tools that allow them to kill each other with such ease. Mainly handguns.
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Old 08-11-2015, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,377,683 times
Reputation: 4188
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Yes, finally someone on here who understands. New gun laws will not completely eliminate gun related crime. But reducing firearm related homicides from 11,000 people a year to 5,000 or 3,000 would be a massive improvement. America is a first world nation, a nation founded by brilliant, educated, civilized people. Our homicide rate is far to high for a country as great as this. The American people deserve better.

Guns are illegal in Chicago. What new laws would lower gun violence there?
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Old 08-11-2015, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,377,683 times
Reputation: 4188
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Poverty and culture. Unless you have a good idea on how to make young black males not want to kill each other, this is something we will not be able to change. We can eliminate the tools that allow them to kill each other with such ease. Mainly handguns.

Eliminate handguns and they will stab each other...
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Old 08-11-2015, 02:39 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,639,943 times
Reputation: 20027
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Poverty and culture. Unless you have a good idea on how to make young black males not want to kill each other, this is something we will not be able to change. We can eliminate the tools that allow them to kill each other with such ease. Mainly handguns.
you make it sound so simple, but you have no clue do you? how many of those fine upstanding young citizens have full auto weapons? and how many of those fine citizens have the required FFL? and how many of those fine citizens bought those full auto weapons legally? i can give you the answers to those questions so you dont have to look them up;

1: many, too many

2: none

3: none

until you can get rid of the black market in this country, you will NEVER EVER eliminate the tools they use to kill themselves with.
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Old 08-11-2015, 02:43 PM
mm4
 
5,711 posts, read 3,954,180 times
Reputation: 1941
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Poverty and culture. Unless you have a good idea on how to make young black males not want to kill each other, this is something we will not be able to change. We can eliminate the tools that allow them to kill each other with such ease. Mainly handguns.
That's what they said in Brixton.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...nce+increasing

But we all know that's really about tyrants wanting the guns.
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Old 08-11-2015, 02:47 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,126 posts, read 15,521,975 times
Reputation: 17109
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
As several people have already correctly pointed out, having a single state with strict gun laws does not stop gun crime. It has to be nation wide. As you may have noticed, we have open border policy between all the states. So people in my home state of California that want 30 round mags for their AR-15 simple just need to drive to Arizona or Nevada. Thus making California state gun laws pointless. Hawaii is pretty densely populated, very ethnically mixed and has a very low rate of gun crime. Why? Because its difficult to get a handgun there.
Every gun store here in my area has a sign posted about CA residents and hi cap mags. The gun stores won't sell them to CA residents, if they know they are CA residents. Since the intention is, obviously, to take them back to CA, which is illegal as hell. They ask for proof of residency, for hi cap mag sales. Thanks to CA, I have to show my DL to buy spare mags. They don't recordID, bbut they do ask for it. A gun shop can get in pretty hot water if a CA resident gets caught with a bag of mags, and a store receipt, crossing the border. As a private citizen, j wouldn't sell a BB to someone from CA.

Selling hi cap mags to a Californian can end life, as you know it. Yea, thanks CA, for making life so nice for we NV shooters. So, its not the cakewalk , getting restricted firearms items, you make it out to be. Its a huge risk, and flat NOT worth it, for a 15 dollar P mag. My son and I used to compete in CA. ICORE and USPSA. Not anymore. I won't suspend one thin dime in CA, for competitive shooting, which actually sucks, because the shooting sports have really suffered there. The big events, WD used to attend, brought a lot of revenue to the local communities. But, taking firearms and gear into CA, for any purpose, just, flat, ain't worth it anymore.
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Old 08-11-2015, 02:49 PM
 
28,912 posts, read 14,271,252 times
Reputation: 14191
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Poverty and culture. Unless you have a good idea on how to make young black males not want to kill each other, this is something we will not be able to change. We can eliminate the tools that allow them to kill each other with such ease. Mainly handguns.
And there you have it...you do get it don't you ??!! And you do realize this is the majority of the violence we are talking about right ? Eliminate this and we are as safe as anywhere else..said for like the third or fourth time.

So do tell, how easily these tools can be eliminated ? I really want to hear this. Because so far, everything you've suggested has taken rights away from the other side of this coin, the law abiding. Again, the wrong ones to look at.
And , at the moment I can't find anything to back this up but I think you are incorrect on the majority of crimes (at least in Detroit) using handguns. Sure, they are used a lot but most of the driveby's were done with some sort of semi auto rifles.

Still want to hear how easy you can eliminate these tools from them. If it's good I might try and put you in touch with Chief James Craig, he would love to hear how easy you can solve the problem.
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Old 08-11-2015, 02:52 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,916 posts, read 59,916,725 times
Reputation: 60449
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
And there you have it...you do get it don't you ??!! And you do realize this is the majority of the violence we are talking about right ? Eliminate this and we are as safe as anywhere else..said for like the third or fourth time.

So do tell, how easily these tools can be eliminated ? I really want to hear this. Because so far, everything you've suggested has taken rights away from the other side of this coin, the law abiding. Again, the wrong ones to look at.
And , at the moment I can't find anything to back this up but I think you are incorrect on the majority of crimes (at least in Detroit) using handguns. Sure, they are used a lot but most of the driveby's were done with some sort of semi auto rifles.

Still want to hear how easy you can eliminate these tools from them. If it's good I might try and put you in touch with Chief James Craig, he would love to hear how easy you can solve the problem.

Maryland attacked the problem 20 years ago by outlawing small caliber handguns, what were then called Saturday Night Specials.

What happened was the bad guys then uparmored to larger calibers.
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Old 08-11-2015, 02:54 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,771,686 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Every gun store here in my area has a sign posted about CA residents and hi cap mags. The gun stores won't sell them to CA residents, if they know they are CA residents. Since the intention is, obviously, to take them back to CA, which is illegal as hell. They ask for proof of residency, for hi cap mag sales. Thanks to CA, I have to show my DL to buy spare mags. They don't recordID, bbut they do ask for it. A gun shop can get in pretty hot water if a CA resident gets caught with a bag of mags, and a store receipt, crossing the border. As a private citizen, j wouldn't sell a BB to someone from CA.

Selling hi cap mags to a Californian can end life, as you know it. Yea, thanks CA, for making life so nice for we NV shooters. So, its not the cakewalk , getting restricted firearms items, you make it out to be. Its a huge risk, and flat NOT worth it, for a 15 dollar P mag. My son and I used to compete in CA. ICORE and USPSA. Not anymore. I won't suspend one thin dime in CA, for competitive shooting, which actually sucks, because the shooting sports have really suffered there. The big events, WD used to attend, brought a lot of revenue to the local communities. But, taking firearms and gear into CA, for any purpose, just, flat, ain't worth it anymore.
Gun shops out is state selling a magazine to a California resident is legal. Gun shops out of state who do this cannot get in any trouble as they do not fall under California law.

A lot of FUD in your post.
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