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Old 08-24-2015, 02:54 AM
 
6,351 posts, read 9,962,665 times
Reputation: 3490

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshogun96 View Post
This, especially the bolded statements and that last paragraph. I noticed that the older I get and the higher up I go in my career, the more my marital status comes up in conversations, even when I intentionally try to avoid it. In western society, women are not to be criticized negatively or constructively. This is primarily because women are considered a protected class because they are viewed as oppressed. I don't believe any ideology, religion or person is above criticism, but we are all so easily offended.


Exactly. A career-oriented woman, or any woman for that matter, doesn't get asked about being married as much as men do. It is okay for women to be independent and not need a man, and I 100% support that. But if a man answers questions about marriage with "I'm an independent man, I don't really need the whole marriage thing" it is "man-child" this or "woman-hater" that.

It use to be bachelors were more accepted than unmarried women (old maids) Those days are over, and it is a good thing because women should be judged as individuals, not a set of roles that come with a gender. But now it is single men who are looked at poorly (man-children) and not women. Really, has anyone heard the word "woman-child" thrown around to describe a woman, ANY woman?

Equality is a two-way street. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

 
Old 08-24-2015, 04:53 AM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,074 posts, read 19,579,298 times
Reputation: 25564
Amazing the things we have acronyms for.
 
Old 08-24-2015, 05:19 AM
 
Location: 53179
14,416 posts, read 22,427,310 times
Reputation: 14476
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
I was a late bloomer and didn't really start dating until I was well into my 20s and lost my virginity closer to 30 than 20. Maybe that's why I don't see what all the fuss is about. I mean really, sex is overrated, and so are relationships. And yet, society expects me and other men to do x,y and z to "impress women" and "get girls" and go through all these hopes, do all this effort, just to attract a female. And once we get said female we are suppose to "grow up" and basically prostitute ourselves to a 9-5, even if we hate said 9-5, give up our own ambitions in favor of having kids, supporting a wife (so much for "independent women") and family and have no dreams aside from maybe getting a McMansion.

Enter MGTOW, an idea that was around before it had a name. It is about men rejecting the ideas of society and not denying ourselves to satisfy some woman's expectations or what society expects of men. It is NOT about men who don't want to grow up. The opposite, actually: I have a nice job, pay my own bills and even volunteer at a local animal shelter. I just don't spend any more time pursuing women because relationships as a whole are really not worth it. I would rather spend my time becoming a better writer of horror and fantasy or backpacking than trying to meet women at bars or online.

And it is not about hating women. I have more female friends than I do male friends. I have nothing against women as a whole. We don't believe women should be back in the kitchen. Most of us understand that women should be free to pursue whatever ambition they desire. Likewise, we want our own dreams to be OURS and not what society tells us. MGTOW is not anti-woman, but it is pro-men being free and liberated. Women do not have to stay in the kitchen and with the kids any more (thank God) and men don't have to climb the corporate ladder and jump through hopes to attract women and be hubbies anymore (thank God)

Also, MGTOW is as much a middle-finger to the older generation of men as it is to certain (but not all) women. We are telling our fathers and grandfathers that we see the lies they didn't see and that we know why they have grown into old, bitter men: they fell for it. The idea that I as a male have to become a walking ATM machine for a baby-factory who doesn't really care for me and I have to sell my soul for a "dream" of an ugly house filled with brats is dead. That McMansion is a gilded cage...emphasis on the cage part

And finally it is not about feminism. It may have been inspired by some ideas of feminism (if women can be liberated, than so can we) but this is not men giving up because women "refuse to be ladies". Even if I was around "Stepford Wife" kind of women I would still not want to go back to dating...in fact, that would be even worse! At least modern women can actually work and provide something material to a relationship in theory. Back in the day they were just free-loaders. Honestly: is a relationship and sex so important that I would give up my freedom to a free-loader? Not for me, it isn't, and not for a growing number of men.

That is what MGTOW is. It is men's liberation finally here and finally spreading. Deal with it

Are you gay maybe? IF you don't enjoy sex with women and you think it's overrated, you might be gay.
 
Old 08-24-2015, 05:24 AM
 
Location: USA
6,230 posts, read 6,906,412 times
Reputation: 10779
You don't want to date, you don't have to date. Why is this even a discussion? Not everyone is cut out for relationships.
 
Old 08-24-2015, 05:43 AM
 
11,086 posts, read 8,522,995 times
Reputation: 6392
This should be in the Relationships forum.
 
Old 08-24-2015, 05:50 AM
 
11,186 posts, read 6,487,434 times
Reputation: 4621
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
AMEN!

The thread has devolved into "if only women were like they were in the old days" and "feminism is too blame!" or "you're sexist for saying you don't need a woman to be happy!" or "I don't care...which is why I am responding."

And the reason we talk about this is to let others know they are not alone. Like I said, sex was meh at best and intimate relationships are not worth the effort. I have female friends, a female boss, and have nothing against women. It's just that I am done pursuing them romantically.

Society is appalled by the idea of a man who is just not interested in women but isn't gay. No, I am not asexual, just kind of apathetic about it at this point, as many men are. They just have been told by society, their families, their friends, that if you don't chase girls, you are not a "real man."

Being responsible for one's self and giving back to one's community is what makes one a real man, not how many women one sleeps with or being attractive to a member of the opposite sex.

And if the gender was reversed in this thread, and a woman said "she doesn't need men, and sex with them is overrated anyway and sometimes men even smell" it would be a chorus of women saying "you go girl!" But a man says that? "You have mental issues!" You hate women! No one cares!" blah blah...
Look, I said you have mental issues because of your post #204, and I'm sticking with that opinion. Based on that post, you aren't a MGYourOW based on a conscious choice. Rather, you are physically repulsed by closeness to other humans, particularly women. You are 'done pursuing women romantically' because in your words in 204,

"I don't mind women at all, as long as they are fully clothed in my presence and not making physical contact with me aside from a handshake. As individuals they are fine, just as long as nothing intimate is involved, my cat smells nicer than any woman on earth,' and other extremely fringe personal views.

You aren't at all representative of men who choose MGTOW.
 
Old 08-24-2015, 06:49 AM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,765 posts, read 2,786,386 times
Reputation: 2366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
Look, I said you have mental issues because of your post #204, and I'm sticking with that opinion.
I don't think he denies having mental issues. If you look at his old threads in one he freely admits he's a sociopath. I think he just can't admit he's lonely. His posts reflect a personality of someone that needs attention.
 
Old 08-24-2015, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,660,138 times
Reputation: 24860
The big problem with Going Your Own Way is you frequently go it alone.

Going alone is a short trip to self-referential madness.
 
Old 08-24-2015, 08:24 AM
 
11,412 posts, read 7,767,343 times
Reputation: 21922
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Exactly. A career-oriented woman, or any woman for that matter, doesn't get asked about being married as much as men do. It is okay for women to be independent and not need a man, and I 100% support that. But if a man answers questions about marriage with "I'm an independent man, I don't really need the whole marriage thing" it is "man-child" this or "woman-hater" that.

It use to be bachelors were more accepted than unmarried women (old maids) Those days are over, and it is a good thing because women should be judged as individuals, not a set of roles that come with a gender. But now it is single men who are looked at poorly (man-children) and not women. Really, has anyone heard the word "woman-child" thrown around to describe a woman, ANY woman?

Equality is a two-way street. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
This is not at all true. I know quite a few unmarried women (most of them ages late 20s to mid 40s) and they are ALWAYS being asked why they aren't married by coworkers, family and friends. They are judged just as much as men and in some cases even more when rude people respond to their reasons with "But don't you want kids? The clock is ticking!". As if the only contribution a woman can make to society is to have kids. While you don't hear the word "woman-child" to describe an unmarried, independent woman, you hear the words "Man Hater", "Frigid Bi**h" or other delightful phrases meant to belittle their choice to remain single.

People are amazingly rude these days and feel the need to comment on other peoples choices. And not just about marriage but, on every aspect of their lives. I don't get why it matters to anyone if I have a dog instead of a cat, but I have a neighbor who is constantly harping on that fact. She's gone as far as bringing a pitiful homeless kitten to my doorstep in an attempt to force me into her way of thinking. If something that insignificant sets someone off, the whole marriage and kids thing is certainly free game to some people. The women I know who hear comments about not being married or having kids have had to come to the place where they ignore the rudeness and avoid the people dishing it out.
 
Old 08-24-2015, 01:07 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,151 posts, read 15,576,374 times
Reputation: 17139
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The big problem with Going Your Own Way is you frequently go it alone.

Going alone is a short trip to self-referential madness.
Mmmm...yea. Going your own way and going it alone are different critters. I'm going my own way, now, and so is my lady, we, each, manage our separate lives. We have our own places, finances, family, friends, etc, that we don't inject ourselves into, on the other. Unless invited to. There's no questions, " where were you yesterday", and so on. We inform each other about things, as a courtesy, so there's no worries, but nothing is mandatory.

Still, we find ourselves needing each other. Its nice to have someone who cares in reach. That you're not isolated. Someone who has an intimate window into you, and can smooth over the bumps when things get rough, which they always do, sooner or later. And, unlike the OP, I find the smell of my girl and being close to her, preferable to my dog. Lol,Her breath on my face doesn't smell like Alpo Chop House and kibble, and she doesn't shed when I scratch her back.
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