Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) so many people don't get it (Iraq, attorney)
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BTW, someone asked why MGTOW don't push for more men's shelters and perform similar types of activism. The answer:
MGTOW aren't negotiators. Why? MGTOW realize that we live in a hypergynocentric world in which naive, butt kissing, sex driven men will always pander to women. Rather than negotiate for a better place at the slave table, MGTOW take the direct approach. We simply remove women's power over our lives by not giving women power in our lives in the first place. Failed relationships with women - especially through marriage - is how a good number of men end up homeless. For this reason, the rejection of marriage is a biggie in the MGTOW mindset. Some MGTOW reject any level of engagement with women - which completely removes most of life's hardships and struggles for men. Men that remove the importance of women in their lives and instead focus on their own self-improvement have far less need of public shelters. The simple removal of women's power over men's lives solves the majority of men's problems. Women gain most of their power over men through marriage and the manipulation of men through sex.
Ok, well at least your honest and not trying to pass it off as some organization to help men's recognition and rights in areas where it is lacking.
You boys go ahead and pound your witch drum but Ill tell you something. When we lived in a hyperandrocentric world women formed an organization that empowered ALL women. They fought and lobbied and sacrificed for legal and social equality for ALL women that broke men's all encompassing power over them. They did not do it out of hatred or disgust, they did not abandon nor rebuke men, they did not go their own way. They slowly and diligently made changes to an androcentric society to move toward egalitarian society and to stand beside men. United we stand, divided we fall.
Nothing at all wrong with remaining single, nothing wrong with not wanting any type of romantic interest in women but if it is truly fairness and not power I don't think you are going about it the right way.
Look, I've referred to the op as ill because of what he's written about himself [see post # 200], not because of him identifying with the MGTOW movement. To the contrary, imo, his reasons for identifying with MGTOW have little to nothing to do with the rationale in your post.
Anyway, before I ever heard of MGTOW, a few guys I know basically lived that way. I don't think they thought of it as a 'movement' or having societal implications. They'd simply reached a point, mid-late 30's, when they were enjoying life too much to even consider a long-term relationship, marriage, children, 'settling down.' otoh, none are repulsed by naked women or think humans are stinkiest smelling non-fish animals on earth.
I'm not here to endorse others posts, but I suspect he might be asexual. If he is, then his reaction to women and sex is to be expected. If that's a mental illness, then homosexuality is too a mental illness. MGTOW makes sense to some asexuals because they don't like sex in the first place. It could also be that he's angry after realizing some uncomfortable truths regarding women. Many a MGTOW has gone through that stage - myself included. It could also be that he's writing stuff to **** you off. If that was his goal - then it obviously worked.
Regardless of the above, my point was to highlight common shaming tactics, many of which can be found here, to wit: You're not man. You can't get it up. You have a small penis. You live in your mother's basement. You'll die alone. You need to grow up. Loser. You're afraid of women. Blah, blah, blah. The list of shaming tactics goes on and on and on.
Ok, well at least your honest and not trying to pass it off as some organization to help men's recognition and rights in areas where it is lacking.
You boys go ahead and pound your witch drum but Ill tell you something. When we lived in a hyperandrocentric world women formed an organization that empowered ALL women. They fought and lobbied and sacrificed for legal and social equality for ALL women that broke men's all encompassing power over them. They did not do it out of hatred or disgust, they did not abandon nor rebuke men, they did not go their own way. They slowly and diligently made changes to an androcentric society to move toward egalitarian society and to stand beside men. United we stand, divided we fall.
Nothing at all wrong with remaining single, nothing wrong with not wanting any type of romantic interest in women but if it is truly fairness and not power I don't think you are going about it the right way.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. As a matter of fact, I don't buy a single word of what you wrote. The dictionary definition of feminism and the feminism we see in reality are way out of sync, which is why more and more people are rejecting feminism. Simply re-branding feminism as egalitarianism isn't going to work either. The truth of feminism is that women want to have their cake and eat it, too; hence the global proliferation of anti-feminism, MRAs and MGTOW.
Women didn't demand equality with men until work became less life threatening and body destroying. Women demand half of the most prestigious powerful positions at the top while holding men down at the bottom through gynocentric brainwashing. The hypocrisies of the women's movement are many - so much so that there's a site dedicated to exposing these hypocrisies called "exposing feminism".
I'm not one you can easily fool - so don't waste your words. That "women just want equality" is a complete lie - as can be easily demonstrated in reality.
vast: 1. of very great extent or quantity; immense
majority: a number that is greater than half of a total
Which would indicate a much larger percentage than the majority, 51% as opposed to say 80%.
If the vast majority of men commit a crime it is irrelevant that men are sentenced to longer terms.
Quote:
Actually, that is because the courts are biased against fathers. And women, when required to pay child support, are a lot more likely to default.
"Percentage wise, however, women default on their child support obligations more than their male counterparts, or at least that's what happened in 2009."
No that is because women are usually the custodial parent.
Quote:
All I am saying is that this societal pressure to change x,y and z about myself to "attract a girl" and all the hoops I as a male have to jump through to "get laid" is NOT WORTH IT. I have female friends, have nothing against women, but I am just finished dating, intimacy etc.
Why is that so hard to understand? It is not about women in the workplace, in society etc but about what I as a man am expected to do to have female companionship which, in all honesty, is a very overrated experience.
Women are fine, just as long as I am not being pushed to to anything to sleep with them or have intimate relationships with them. That is what MGTOW is about. Why is that so hard to understand?
But that is not all your saying and that is not what one reads on the MGTOW sites. No one is pressuring you to attract a girl or get laid. That is all in your head.
I think one of the main reasons for MGTOW is that a lot of men feel degraded. The alpha guys, the players, the high status popular guys, etc. aren't usually the MGTOW types. It's usually the guy who just wants a stable girlfriend who cares about them, but they just get used by women who go on to sleep with the alpha guy (hoping they can win him over, and then end up heartbroken that he didn't call them back). Then when they start getting older and can't lock down the alpha guys, they come back to the "nice guy". It's more of a self-esteem boost for a guy to just say "I don't need you".
That said, that's how life is, so you just accept it and do what you can. No need to be bitter. Personally I think the best thing to do is work on getting good with girls if you're not, and a lot of that frustration will go away. If you don't want to put in the work for that, nothing wrong with quitting the whole game. Just make sure you're doing it because you'd truly be fine alone, and not out of spite.
I'm not here to endorse others posts, but I suspect he might be asexual. If he is, then his reaction to women and sex is to be expected. If that's a mental illness, then homosexuality is too a mental illness. MGTOW makes sense to some asexuals because they don't like sex in the first place. It could also be that he's angry after realizing some uncomfortable truths regarding women. Many a MGTOW has gone through that stage - myself included. It could also be that he's writing stuff to **** you off. If that was his goal - then it obviously worked.
Regardless of the above, my point was to highlight common shaming tactics, many of which can be found here, to wit: You're not man. You can't get it up. You have a small penis. You live in your mother's basement. You'll die alone. You need to grow up. Loser. You're afraid of women. Blah, blah, blah. The list of shaming tactics goes on and on and on.
He didn't p me off. Since this is the 1st thread I've seen here re MGTOW, I thought his personal issues with women and humans weren't at all a decent reflection of Most who identify with those groups.
My main objection to MGTOW is the implication that men should avoid inter-personal relationships with women because there's some sort of inevitability to our becoming subjugated to their sexual power or submitting to their every whim, watching movies we hate, meeting her parents, and inevitably walking down the aisle..
I think one of the main reasons for MGTOW is that a lot of men feel degraded. The alpha guys, the players, the high status popular guys, etc. aren't usually the MGTOW types. It's usually the guy who just wants a stable girlfriend who cares about them, but they just get used by women who go on to sleep with the alpha guy (hoping they can win him over, and then end up heartbroken that he didn't call them back). Then when they start getting older and can't lock down the alpha guys, they come back to the "nice guy". It's more of a self-esteem boost for a guy to just say "I don't need you".
That said, that's how life is, so you just accept it and do what you can. No need to be bitter. Personally I think the best thing to do is work on getting good with girls if you're not, and a lot of that frustration will go away. If you don't want to put in the work for that, nothing wrong with quitting the whole game. Just make sure you're doing it because you'd truly be fine alone, and not out of spite.
MGTOW isn't a protective enclave for men who can't get laid. MGTOW isn't a movement either. MGTOW is a mindset that frees men from backwards, gynocentric, anti-male, white knight thinking so prevalent in religion and media. For instance, a white knight would say, "MGTOW are just bitter because they had their lives destroyed by their wives through divorce after she met a better man. They need to suck it up and get on with life. That's just how it is." You'd never hear a white knight say, "Feminists are just bitter because their husbands destroyed them through divorce to be with a better, younger woman. That's just how it is. Women need to just suck it up."
MGTOW isn't a protective enclave for men who can't get laid. MGTOW isn't a movement either. MGTOW is a mindset that frees men from backwards, gynocentric, anti-male, white knight thinking so prevalent in religion and media. For instance, a white knight would say, "MGTOW are just bitter because they had their lives destroyed by their wives through divorce after she met a better man. They need to suck it up and get on with life. That's just how it is." You'd never hear a white knight say, "Feminists are just bitter because their husbands destroyed them through divorce to be with a better, younger woman. That's just how it is. Women need to just suck it up."
White knights are the enemies of all men.
I definitely agree about white knights. I also think that the idea of patriarchy is completely false, and that women have (and have had in the past) a lot more power than people realize. There's a lot of confirmation bias in modern feminism. I think both men and women imagine life without the opposite sex being much easier than it actually is, but that's especially true for women.
One of the best things I've heard on the topic is that men and women will come together in times of crisis, because both can help each other when the going is rough. When everything is going smoothly and there's more prosperity, they don't need each other as much. He then said something along the lines of "but with the whole feminist movement, when the next crisis hits, you better bet they'll be looking to men for help...and we should respond with 'I'm glad to help, but not before we get an apology.'"
We'll have to agree to disagree then. As a matter of fact, I don't buy a single word of what you wrote. The dictionary definition of feminism and the feminism we see in reality are way out of sync, which is why more and more people are rejecting feminism. Simply re-branding feminism as egalitarianism isn't going to work either. The truth of feminism is that women want to have their cake and eat it, too; hence the global proliferation of anti-feminism, MRAs and MGTOW.
Women didn't demand equality with men until work became less life threatening and body destroying. Women demand half of the most prestigious powerful positions at the top while holding men down at the bottom through gynocentric brainwashing. The hypocrisies of the women's movement are many - so much so that there's a site dedicated to exposing these hypocrisies called "exposing feminism".
I'm not one you can easily fool - so don't waste your words. That "women just want equality" is a complete lie - as can be easily demonstrated in reality.
I think your delusional but carry on. All the best and I hope your mind set brings you great joy in life.
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