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It is a leadership course for individuals in combat, not a leadership course for someone at a desk.
They still need to be able to do perform the tasks of the group they are supposed to be leaders of. Like direct combat, many times resulting in hand to hand combat, carrying heavy loads over long distances and rough terrain without further support. Solely carrying injured soldiers. Making quick decisions based on special adeptness. Being able to do all the above on a regular basis requiring faster rejuvenation of ongoing physical trama.
In short all of the things that Capt. Kristen Griest and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver, were evaluated on and passed to the satisfaction of their instructors but also their fellow soldiers as well.
Maj. Jim Hathaway, the executive officer for the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade pretty much spells out why this thread has deteriorated to the misogynist mess that it has become posting on FaceBook, his response:
The final comment I will say is this. No matter what we at Ranger School say the non-believers will still be non-believers. We could have invited each of you to guest walk the entire course, and you would still not believe, we could have video recorded every patrol and you would still say that we “gave” it away. Nothing we say will change your opinion. I and the rest of our cadre are proud of the conduct of our soldiers, NCOs and officers, they took the mission assigned and performed to the Ranger Standard. Rangers Lead the Way!!!!!
I guess that's the Army's way of saying haters are going to hate.
Maj. Jim Hathaway, the executive officer for the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade pretty much spells out why this thread has deteriorated to the misogynist mess that it has become posting on FaceBook, his response:
The final comment I will say is this. No matter what we at Ranger School say the non-believers will still be non-believers. We could have invited each of you to guest walk the entire course, and you would still not believe, we could have video recorded every patrol and you would still say that we “gave” it away. Nothing we say will change your opinion. I and the rest of our cadre are proud of the conduct of our soldiers, NCOs and officers, they took the mission assigned and performed to the Ranger Standard. Rangers Lead the Way!!!!!
I guess that's the Army's way of saying haters are going to hate.
I am not pretending to be a military expert. I can honestly say I am not a hater, but I am skeptical about the whole concept of putting women in special forces.
I know one army ranger who lost both his legs. He is very passionate about this issue and he does not believe women should be put in special forces at all. I volunteer at VA hospital, and I know many combat soldiers and Marines. I'd say 80% do not like the ideas that women in special forces.
In short all of the things that Capt. Kristen Griest and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver, were evaluated on and passed to the satisfaction of their instructors but also their fellow soldiers as well.
A training program and actual combat are not the same thing.
Multiple studies have shown how mixed gender units reduce readiness. Why do you want to make the military less successful, possibly at the expense of the lives of soldiers?
They still need to be able to do perform the tasks of the group they are supposed to be leaders of. Like direct combat, many times resulting in hand to hand combat, carrying heavy loads over long distances and rough terrain without further support. Solely carrying injured soldiers. Making quick decisions based on special adeptness. Being able to do all the above on a regular basis requiring faster rejuvenation of ongoing physical trama.
As it happens, Army Ranger School is a program specifically designed to test an individual's capacity in all of these areas.
Quote:
In everyone aspect of the above a man is better able to complete the mission than a women...
Yet somehow, hundreds of men have washed out of ARS while these two women completed it.
Are they exceptional? Yes. Everyone who completes Ranger training is, it's designed for that purpose. Most men who even qualify to enter are forced to give up as well.
A training program and actual combat are not the same thing.
Then what's the point, if not to seek out combat leaders? Are you saying the Army just doesn't know how to find and train combat-ready individuals? That's disconcerting.
I am not pretending to be a military expert. I can honestly say I am not a hater, but I am skeptical about the whole concept of putting women in special forces.
I know one army ranger who lost both his legs. He is very passionate about this issue and he does not believe women should be put in special forces at all. I volunteer at VA hospital, and I know many combat soldiers and Marines. I'd say 80% do not like the ideas that women in special forces.
No hate.
The people who have been there and done that almost always feel the same way about this issue.
The problem is those in the military leadership that do not get on board these social changes suffer punishment for speaking out, often ruining careers and future chances of promotion.
Then what's the point, if not to seek out combat leaders? Are you saying the Army just doesn't know how to find and train combat-ready individuals? That's disconcerting.
Passing a training class, though rigorous, does not mean one is an effective combat leader.
Obviously what the two women did is astonishing and they deserve credit. But in the end they will always be a compromise compared to their male counterparts. Thousands of years of evolution have seen to that.
The people who have been there and done that almost always feel the same way about this issue.
The problem is those in the military leadership that do not get on board these social changes suffer punishment for speaking out, often ruining careers and future chances of promotion.
I am not pretending to be a military expert. I can honestly say I am not a hater, but I am skeptical about the whole concept of putting women in special forces.
Quote:
I know one army ranger who lost both his legs. He is very passionate about this issue and he does not believe women should be put in special forces at all. I volunteer at VA hospital, and I know many combat soldiers and Marines. I'd say 80% do not like the ideas that women in special forces.
I wasn't referring to you...
Anyway, here's my take on that. Even after the distinguished combat history that African Americans earned in every preceding war from the Revolution to the WW2 there were those who could not, would not believe that African American had any place in front line combat forces. It wasn't until the Korean and Vietnam Wars that having to fight alongside each others did white soldiers, sailors, or Marines get it through their racist heads that the black guy laying next to them was every bit as capable a warrior as they were.
I suspect that if there were any men in the Ranger class who felt that women had no place in combat before, there are far fewer now. The future will follow in the same path, just as it has with African Americans and homosexuals, over time when given the opportunity, these men will change forever the doubts, recriminations and misogynist attitudes that are being held today.
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