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Old 09-09-2015, 01:17 PM
 
34,620 posts, read 21,540,819 times
Reputation: 22232

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Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
WTH? This basically backs up what I've been saying:

- She could have just given the cash to the robber and the whole ordeal would have been over. Yes, she would have lost money but she'd have been alive.

- The robber actually GAVE her time to retrieve the purse and pull out the weapon. This is possible because 1) this is a robbery and it appears the robber did not actually wants to kill her. 2) The robber was incredibly incompetent. See below.

- Just GRAB the purse and run away robber!! That's what most robbers would do. Why would a robber allows her to reach into the purse? Unbelievable. And credibly stupid.

- This is demonstrates that if someone does deter an attacker with a gun, it's blind luck. In most situations, the robber would have made away with the purse and the gun inside it.

HCSO: Licensed gun holder shoots would-be robber in northeast Harris County | abc13.com


At no point in the story, did I get the impression that firing the gun is the ONLY solution. This is not a life-or-death situation that many of the gun nuts are referring to. But ok fine, I'll play along - bottom line is, this is a perfect example of why law enforcement says in situation like that it's better to just hand over the cash and stay alive. Yes, it turned out well for her but it easily could have been worse. If she had fumbled the gun or missed, now the robber is in close proximity and might have decided to kill her instead of just robbing her.

Again, not saying this isn't a good ending for the woman; but it does nothing to debunk my point because it doesn't demonstrate that the gun is the ONLY and the SAFEST solution for her to get out of that jam. At best, this is the exception that proves the rule.


.
ROLFMAO.

You should go to the Olympics for backstroke.

You essentially said that a gun would be useless in that situation, which it clearly was not.

She was able to use her gun to protect herself.

Nice try, but epic fail.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:18 PM
 
376 posts, read 295,289 times
Reputation: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
I know right, in real life the gunman certainly would ignore someone reaching for a weapon. That's just how it works, right?

Fail.
.
One guy with a gun saves 30 lives.

Win.


Never thought if it like that, did ya?
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:20 PM
 
12,638 posts, read 8,931,892 times
Reputation: 7458
A gun can protect you in certain situations. The really laughable myth is that the police will be able to arrive in time to prevent you from being a victim.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:21 PM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,959,798 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
WTH? This basically backs up what I've been saying:

- She could have just given the cash to the robber and the whole ordeal would have been over. Yes, she would have lost money but she'd have been alive.

- The robber actually GAVE her time to retrieve the purse and pull out the weapon. This is possible because 1) this is a robbery and it appears the robber did not actually wants to kill her. 2) The robber was incredibly incompetent. See below.

- Just GRAB the purse and run away robber!! That's what most robbers would do. Why would a robber allows her to reach into the purse? Unbelievable. And credibly stupid.

- This is demonstrates that if someone does deter an attacker with a gun, it's blind luck. In most situations, the robber would have made away with the purse and the gun inside it.

HCSO: Licensed gun holder shoots would-be robber in northeast Harris County | abc13.com


At no point in the story, did I get the impression that firing the gun is the ONLY solution. This is not a life-or-death situation that many of the gun nuts are referring to. But ok fine, I'll play along - bottom line is, this is a perfect example of why law enforcement says in situation like that it's better to just hand over the cash and stay alive. Yes, it turned out well for her but it easily could have been worse. If she had fumbled the gun or missed, now the robber is in close proximity and might have decided to kill her instead of just robbing her.

Again, not saying this isn't a good ending for the woman; but it does nothing to debunk my point because it doesn't demonstrate that the gun is the ONLY and the SAFEST solution for her to get out of that jam. At best, this is the exception that proves the rule.


.

And, what if the only motive wasn't to just make of with her cash? What if the perp decided to try and rape her? So if we're using your logic should she just submit, and let the POS have his way? Why take the chance?
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,672 posts, read 10,585,040 times
Reputation: 5577
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtc08 View Post
im going to end this thread with something that cannot be debated.

if someone wants to kill you, they will kill you. end of story. if presidents can be shot with guards with guns near them, you will get killed in your house if somebody decides that they want to kill you.

simple as that.
If someone wants to rob you, they will rob you. There is no such thing as an unbreakable lock or door. Does that mean we put all of our possessions on the sidewalk to make it easier for the thief?

I imagine that those determined to assassinate someone are doing so for extraordinary reasons and will expend extraordinary effort to accomplish that end. In the face of that, I agree that the average person will have little hope except for luck to survive. Fortunately the vast majority of us do not face that level of determination or effort by those who threaten us.

So, it seems that you were also wrong in your assertion that you could end this thread with an argument that could not be debated. There are numerous stories about untrained home owners that have in fact successfully defended against armed intruders and have not died in the process. I will grant you that there are more stories about people killed by guns than there are stories about crimes that were thwarted without injury or loss by armed citizens. It does not sell papers to be full of articles saying "Today, someone tried to steal something but ran away when the owner said 'No!'." If someone is not hurt or killed, it doesn't make money so it isn't reported.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:30 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,797,822 times
Reputation: 6509
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:32 PM
 
29,194 posts, read 14,465,656 times
Reputation: 14325
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
WTH? This basically backs up what I've been saying:

- She could have just given the cash to the robber and the whole ordeal would have been over. Yes, she would have lost money but she'd have been alive.

- The robber actually GAVE her time to retrieve the purse and pull out the weapon. This is possible because 1) this is a robbery and it appears the robber did not actually wants to kill her. 2) The robber was incredibly incompetent. See below.

- Just GRAB the purse and run away robber!! That's what most robbers would do. Why would a robber allows her to reach into the purse? Unbelievable. And credibly stupid.

- This is demonstrates that if someone does deter an attacker with a gun, it's blind luck. In most situations, the robber would have made away with the purse and the gun inside it.

HCSO: Licensed gun holder shoots would-be robber in northeast Harris County | abc13.com


At no point in the story, did I get the impression that firing the gun is the ONLY solution. This is not a life-or-death situation that many of the gun nuts are referring to. But ok fine, I'll play along - bottom line is, this is a perfect example of why law enforcement says in situation like that it's better to just hand over the cash and stay alive. Yes, it turned out well for her but it easily could have been worse. If she had fumbled the gun or missed, now the robber is in close proximity and might have decided to kill her instead of just robbing her.

Again, not saying this isn't a good ending for the woman; but it does nothing to debunk my point because it doesn't demonstrate that the gun is the ONLY and the SAFEST solution for her to get out of that jam. At best, this is the exception that proves the rule.


.
Just hand over the money and all will be good huh ? Don't deny them their potato chips though..
Man shot over potato chips in Detroit

OP, this has become quite the humorous thread...
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:35 PM
 
34,620 posts, read 21,540,819 times
Reputation: 22232
I think we need to go to tape:

Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
- If you are being held with a knife, how is a gun going to help you unless you are Dirty Harry? You reach for your gun and the robber slashes your throat. A gun is a distance weapon, at close quarter combat many of its advantage is gone. At best you get a few cuts and the robber steals your gun, at worse you're on the ground breathing your last breath.

- Same with the woman being held and forced into her car. By that point, it's too late to draw a concealed weapon. The best strategy is to look for an opportunity to run and scream her lungs off to draw attention.
We can clearly see that bebOp was saying that a gun was useless when a person with a knife has you in a situation like in your car.

I then show that it's not a matter of something hypothetical, and I present the very situation, that is only a few months old, where his "here is what will happen" is shown to be completely wrong.

And what does he do, he says that the situation showing he is wrong backs him up. ROLFMAO. Wow.

We can bring up news story after new story after news story where people with guns use the gun to stop some criminal from victimizing them.

He told us that if your house is getting broken into, trying to fumble for your gun will get you killed. I then show the case of where just a week ago an elderly 85-year-old man uses his gun to shoot one thug and scare away another when they break into his home in an attempt to victimize him.

But that's ok bebOp, you can go ahead and pretend that these things don't really happen.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,361 posts, read 9,766,652 times
Reputation: 6663
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
I think we need to go to tape:



We can clearly see that bebOp was saying that a gun was useless when a person with a knife has you in a situation like in your car.

I then show that it's not a matter of something hypothetical, and I present the very situation, that is only a few months old, where his "here is what will happen" is shown to be completely wrong.

And what does he do, he says that the situation showing he is wrong backs him up. ROLFMAO. Wow.

We can bring up news story after new story after news story where people with guns use the gun to stop some criminal from victimizing them.

He told us that if your house is getting broken into, trying to fumble for your gun will get you killed. I then show the case of where just a week ago an elderly 85-year-old man uses his gun to shoot one thug and scare away another when they break into his home in an attempt to victimize him.

But that's ok bebOp, you can go ahead and pretend that these things don't really happen.
It's really comical when a poster like bebOp tries so hard to back up his/her logic... and then posts an example backing up why he/she is absolutely wrong. Only to then say, after this woman successfully defended herself and kicked the bad guys ass with her GUN, "she should have submitted to the thug and given him her cash"

I reiterate: You can't fix fk'd up logic like this
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:50 PM
 
14,293 posts, read 9,659,141 times
Reputation: 4254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
What is REALLY dangerous are laws that result in armed felons who know with certainty that their victims will be unarmed.

Hate guns? Place a sign in your yard declaring your house a gun-free zone and see what happens.
Or pass a law that confiscates all guns, and essentially sticking the same sign in all our yards.
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