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Old 09-20-2015, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,877,781 times
Reputation: 14125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle View Post
I think Trump as a legitimate candidate is a joke. I don't necessarily think there's a conspiracy theory behind it, but if he does win the nomination moderate Republicans and Independents are going to be driven away in droves. But as I'm a registered Democrat that means whoever my party's candidate is a lock, so that's okay.
Sadly the Republican party don't unify behind a candidate and Trump is too polarizing that we cannot. I am so put off by his rhetoric and woman hate (even as a male) that I cannot vote for him even though some of the policies he has put out on his website (but not publicly and in debates) I am behind. I'm voting on the whole package and Trump's is badly damaged.

 
Old 09-20-2015, 09:54 AM
 
1,024 posts, read 1,040,725 times
Reputation: 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Trump is totally serious, but he will not go the distance. Until then, he is generating a lot of good conversation.
That is his main contribution. He has moved the dialogue in an important direction. We would not see a discussion of ending birthright citizenship and legal immigration levels if not for him. It'd instead be the usual cuckold babble about how immigration is absolutely wonderful (nay, sacred!) in any quantity as long as the immigrants have their papers in order.
 
Old 09-20-2015, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Tri STATE!!!
8,518 posts, read 3,751,473 times
Reputation: 6349
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmm0484 View Post
There is a need for a new Republican party, based on fiscal conservatism, that is NOT MEAN and:
(a) Leaves reproduction up to individual women
(b) Shows respect for women, minorities and LGBT
(c) Promotes self sufficiency and provides work opportunities
(d) Does not advocate primarily for the 1%.
(e) Does not oppose the President based only on political considerations
(f) Works for the betterment of the country.
Sooooooo Democrats? Lol
 
Old 09-20-2015, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Palo Alto, CA
901 posts, read 1,167,164 times
Reputation: 1169
The idea that a NON career politician can enter office, and somehow magically do things differently is ridiculous. The obstacles are not will, they are systemic.

Say some "businessman/woman" becomes President. They will have to deal with the same congress. They will not be able to do what they do in their own companies - boss people around and unilaterallly make decisions. They will face endless numbers of shades of gray situations instead of black-and-white binary choices. They will have to learn a ton about the world....far, far more than it takes to learn an industry. (Donald Trump inherited his damn business, and went bankrupt 4 times. He's not even good at business.)

They will have to negotiate and learn what the public wants so as not to cause a backlash endangering their power and influence, and figure out how to compromise with hundreds of others who must do the same. All alien skills to business leaders.

It's a fantasy, just like the fantasy that the parties are the same. Fantasies like these prevent people from trying to learn something new that might change their minds, which is frightening to some people.
 
Old 09-20-2015, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Tri STATE!!!
8,518 posts, read 3,751,473 times
Reputation: 6349
I will say it once and I will say it again. You can't win the white house by winning all the white men. The numbers just don't support that. If blacks (AA west Indians Africans), Asians and Hispanics and some white women vote as a block they will win big. Obama in 2008
 
Old 09-20-2015, 10:13 AM
 
12,883 posts, read 13,974,852 times
Reputation: 18449
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBoy3 View Post
I know a lot of people who want to vote for Trump. They are going to stay home if it's another Bush against another Clinton...

They are sick and tired of career politicians, that't it. Plain and simple.
This is really what it boils down to, IMO. Trump is outrageous. He says what he thinks, he is unapologetic. Like what he says or not, it IS a nice change from the appeasing, ever changing drivel we get from the career guys/women. Politicians speak and I stop listening. Trump speaks and I'm interested because he is honest, no matter how morally wrong some stuff he says is.

I mean, we have Hillary who puts on a fake Southern accent when in the South. We have Jeb Bush who pretends to be so in tune with Hispanics (maybe he genuinely is given his family but we know what he's trying to do). Then we have Trump who does not give two s*its about what he says or who he offends. Sorry, but I prefer that to the other crap.
 
Old 09-20-2015, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,877,781 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck5000 View Post
The idea that a NON career politician can enter office, and somehow magically do things differently is ridiculous. The obstacles are not will, they are systemic.

Say some "businessman/woman" becomes President. They will have to deal with the same congress. They will not be able to do what they do in their own companies - boss people around and unilaterallly make decisions. They will face endless numbers of shades of gray situations instead of black-and-white binary choices. They will have to learn a ton about the world....far, far more than it takes to learn an industry. (Donald Trump inherited his damn business, and went bankrupt 4 times. He's not even good at business.)

They will have to negotiate and learn what the public wants so as not to cause a backlash endangering their power and influence, and figure out how to compromise with hundreds of others who must do the same. All alien skills to business leaders.

It's a fantasy, just like the fantasy that the parties are the same. Fantasies like these prevent people from trying to learn something new that might change their minds, which is frightening to some people.
Great post. Finally another who truly sees the forest from the trees. The problem is these anti-establishment people that are trying to run the Republican party and have been trying since 2008 with the TEA Party.
 
Old 09-20-2015, 10:23 AM
 
1,024 posts, read 1,040,725 times
Reputation: 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck5000 View Post
The idea that a NON career politician can enter office, and somehow magically do things differently is ridiculous. The obstacles are not will, they are systemic.

Say some "businessman/woman" becomes President. They will have to deal with the same congress. They will not be able to do what they do in their own companies - boss people around and unilaterallly make decisions. They will face endless numbers of shades of gray situations instead of black-and-white binary choices. They will have to learn a ton about the world....far, far more than it takes to learn an industry. (Donald Trump inherited his damn business, and went bankrupt 4 times. He's not even good at business.)

They will have to negotiate and learn what the public wants so as not to cause a backlash endangering their power and influence, and figure out how to compromise with hundreds of others who must do the same. All alien skills to business leaders.

It's a fantasy, just like the fantasy that the parties are the same. Fantasies like these prevent people from trying to learn something new that might change their minds, which is frightening to some people.
Trump would hardly be the first president to seek to bypass the system of checks and balances. Right or wrong, FDR accomplished quite a bit through quite underhanded and blatantly anti-republican tactics. For that matter, so have Bush and Obama, in certain respects. Of course Trump couldn't solve everything, but it would still be a considerable improvement over a president who has always got an eye towards the book deals, speaking engagements and cushy sinecures he's going to pad his bank account with after his terms are up. It's a long shot, but it's all the people that built this country have at this point. Voting in another useless establishmentarian milquetoast pawn like Bush or Rubio is not a solution, but a perpetuation of the problem.
 
Old 09-20-2015, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,249,351 times
Reputation: 19952
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
This is really what it boils down to, IMO. Trump is outrageous. He says what he thinks, he is unapologetic. Like what he says or not, it IS a nice change from the appeasing, ever changing drivel we get from the career guys/women. Politicians speak and I stop listening. Trump speaks and I'm interested because he is honest, no matter how morally wrong some stuff he says is.

I mean, we have Hillary who puts on a fake Southern accent when in the South. We have Jeb Bush who pretends to be so in tune with Hispanics (maybe he genuinely is given his family but we know what he's trying to do). Then we have Trump who does not give two s*its about what he says or who he offends. Sorry, but I prefer that to the other crap.
So you don't like Hillary or Jeb because you think they are pretending and pandering?

And you believe that candidate Trump, who referred to communion as "when I drink my little wine...and have my little cracker" and said "I go to church on Christmas and Easter", who then walks into a political speech attended by evangelicals while prominently carrying a bible, is being 'honest?' C'mon.
 
Old 09-20-2015, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
50,330 posts, read 63,895,871 times
Reputation: 93252
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfriqueNY View Post
I will say it once and I will say it again. You can't win the white house by winning all the white men. The numbers just don't support that. If blacks (AA west Indians Africans), Asians and Hispanics and some white women vote as a block they will win big. Obama in 2008
You can win the White House by having a plan and philosophy that allows everyone the means to achieve what "all" the white men have. The Democrat philosophy has proven over and over that it does not work.

A high tide lifts all boats. I have not decided who my candidate is yet, but there are a few Republican candidates who I suspect have proven that they might move the country ahead, and lift people up. I'm liking Carley Fiorina and John Kasich right now, but there is a long way to go yet.
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