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Old 09-19-2015, 11:30 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,468,134 times
Reputation: 14266

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockside View Post
I'll take it. We need people like me to protect ourselves from people who think like you.
You're actually part of the problem, not the solution. We can protect ourselves and still have moral and intellectual courage not to see the world as black and white.

 
Old 09-19-2015, 11:38 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 3,404,678 times
Reputation: 4812
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
You're actually part of the problem, not the solution. We can protect ourselves and still have moral and intellectual courage not to see the world as black and white.
This is disingenuous and worded as a propaganda artist would word a statement.

Islam is an ideology.

We have no moral obligation to sanction any ideology, any more than we didn't sanction Nazism or have national discussions about the 'good nazis'.

And before you make the predictable argument that Nazis and Muslims are not equivalent, let me remind you that Islam cannot abide polytheism: which it sees Christianity unequivocally as. It is as ideologically intolerant to Christianity as Nazism was to Judaism. If you think otherwise then you don't know Islam well enough to comment.
 
Old 09-19-2015, 11:41 AM
 
5,113 posts, read 5,979,827 times
Reputation: 1748
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1 View Post
This is disingenuous and worded as a propaganda artist would word a statement.

Islam is an ideology.

We have no moral obligation to sanction any ideology, any more than we didn't sanction Nazism or have national discussions about the 'good nazis'.

And before you make the predictable argument that Nazis and Muslims are not equivalent, let me remind you that Islam cannot abide polytheism: which it sees Christianity unequivocally as. It is as ideologically intolerant to Christianity as Nazism was to Judaism. If you think otherwise then you don't know Islam well enough to comment.
I agree with you 100%

This "ambient" person is nothing but a internet forum propagandist and probably paid to spread government propaganda.
 
Old 09-19-2015, 11:41 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,468,134 times
Reputation: 14266
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1 View Post
This is disingenuous and worded as a propaganda artist would word a statement.

Islam is an ideology.

We have no moral obligation to sanction any ideology, any more than we didn't sanction Nazism or have national discussions about the 'good nazis'.

And before you make the predictable argument that Nazis and Muslims are not equivalent, let me remind you that Islam cannot abide polytheism: which it sees Christianity unequivocally as. It is as ideologically intolerant to Christianity as Nazism was to Judaism. If you think otherwise then you don't know Islam well enough to comment.
I know Muslims. See them every day, talk to them, deal with them. And I'm a white European who is not a Muslim, and they have not forced me to convert to anything. They've been like any other Americans I come into contact with. They're not interested in being terrorists and extremists; they're just trying to live their lives.

Stop painting everyone with the same brush based on what you think you know about Muslims - which is not much, clearly. Equating Muslims with Nazis demonstrates the ignorance.
 
Old 09-19-2015, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,884 posts, read 26,562,438 times
Reputation: 25786
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
Muslim is a race now? That's news to me.
Gives you some evidence of the ignorance of leftists. As if more was needed.

Saying "Well, not all Muslims are terrorists (or killers of gays, subjugators of women, murders of infidels, take your pick)" is a lot like saying "Well not all Nazis ran gas chambers". Doesn't mean we should just arbitrarily embrace them or import them into our country.
 
Old 09-19-2015, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
24,543 posts, read 17,297,674 times
Reputation: 35845
People fear what they don't know and unfortunately what we see on the news every night are islamic terrorist killing and blowing stuff up in the name of their religion. It is not that much of a leap for the simple minded to condemn an entire group for the deeds of a few.

The same goes for the black community. The black lives matters group started something good but now it has been subverted and they are being disruptive at events. The small minded take their actions and think "there goes those black people acting like fools again.

I am a bit naive . I still greet people and give them an automatic dose of respect regardless of their colour or religion and it is up to them to destroy that respect. The world has changed and so many people are on the make and looking to take what you have.
We cannot disregard an entire people because of their religion but what we can and need to do is be more vigilant toward those people who have proven to be a problem.
 
Old 09-19-2015, 11:48 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,468,134 times
Reputation: 14266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Gives you some evidence of the ignorance of leftists. As if more was needed.

Saying "Well, not all Muslims are terrorists (or killers of gays, subjugators of women, murders of infidels, take your pick)" is a lot like saying "Well not all Nazis ran gas chambers". Doesn't mean we should just arbitrarily embrace them or import them into our country.
Please look in the mirror and have a long pause to reflect on yourself. You are exactly the problem of which I speak.

Not all Muslims fit the simplistic view you have formed in your mind. Open your eyes and start to see the world as it is, not as right-wing blogs twist it.
 
Old 09-19-2015, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Pacific NW
9,437 posts, read 7,381,285 times
Reputation: 7979
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Education is free:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(...categorization)



So yes, when conservatives look at people of Middle Eastern ethnicity and make common wrong assumptions that don't fit most of them, racism does play into the equation. It's not the only part of the equation, as there are Muslims of all races. But no doubt that racism is part of the picture as well.
Wikipedia is now considered a valid reference? Remember that the next time you complain about someone citing it. Education from Wiki is worth what you paid for it.
 
Old 09-19-2015, 12:00 PM
 
9,848 posts, read 8,292,351 times
Reputation: 3296
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
It just is. It is the racist play of the 21st century.

Look, I don't like terrorists and extremists anymore than anyone else, and I want them all stopped. And I also don't like many aspects of certain Muslim cultures; there are things that some of them do from an institutional standpoint that are wrong. But we can't be rational, compassionate adults (especially ones who claim to be Christians) and slander every single Muslim as terrorist vermin - what you see in the media about a minority of them just isn't true about all, and it's not fair to all of them.

Most adults are taught at some point in their upbringing that stereotyping everyone of a sex, race, creed, etc. is inaccurate; that the world is more nuanced than everyone of a certain ethnicity being "all the same." And we see certain segments of conservatives failing this basic test of adulthood every day.

Most recent examples:

All Syrian refugees smeared as terrorists on right-wing blogs.

Trump's supporter who wants to "get rid of" all Muslims, to which Trump responds that "we'll be looking at a lot of different things."

Denigrating the 14 year-old Muslim kid with the clock because of his faith and slandering his dad as an extremist - which by all accounts he isn't.

It's just not smart to label all of a certain ethnicity of people as all being a certain way. What you see in the conservative media is not reality. Treating people this way is not Christ-like, and it shows a serious lack of empathy for others.
I think only those who believe in Sharia and practice the violent parts of Islam are radical. What percentage of them would that be? Maybe 1.2 billion or so?
 
Old 09-19-2015, 12:03 PM
 
Location: annandale, va & slidell, la
9,267 posts, read 5,131,446 times
Reputation: 8471
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
It just is. It is the racist play of the 21st century.

Look, I don't like terrorists and extremists anymore than anyone else, and I want them all stopped. And I also don't like many aspects of certain Muslim cultures; there are things that some of them do from an institutional standpoint that are wrong. But we can't be rational, compassionate adults (especially ones who claim to be Christians) and slander every single Muslim as terrorist vermin - what you see in the media about a minority of them just isn't true about all, and it's not fair to all of them.

Most adults are taught at some point in their upbringing that stereotyping everyone of a sex, race, creed, etc. is inaccurate; that the world is more nuanced than everyone of a certain ethnicity being "all the same." And we see certain segments of conservatives failing this basic test of adulthood every day.

Most recent examples:

All Syrian refugees smeared as terrorists on right-wing blogs.

Trump's supporter who wants to "get rid of" all Muslims, to which Trump responds that "we'll be looking at a lot of different things."

Denigrating the 14 year-old Muslim kid with the clock because of his faith and slandering his dad as an extremist - which by all accounts he isn't.

It's just not smart to label all of a certain ethnicity of people as all being a certain way. What you see in the conservative media is not reality. Treating people this way is not Christ-like, and it shows a serious lack of empathy for others.

Like most Americans, I'd prefer they stay in their own countries. Their allegiance to their adopted host countries is questionable, and further they bring turmoil wherever they go.

Your lame example of the Muslim kid that dissected a store-bought clock and made it look like something he put together makes you look foolish. If he tried that stunt at the entrance of the White House he'd likely be shot dead.

Empathy my ass. America is a largely Christian nation and that conflicts with the Muslim faith. Let them fix the problems in their own countries instead of migrating with their problems and strange customs in tow.

God Bless America.
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