Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Quote from your link: "Human rights organization Reprieve has urged the European Union to intervene with Saudi Arabia to prevent the killings."
It's a U.S interest why? The article says nothing about asking the U.N. or the U.S. for help in the situation.
I thought it was a US interest to "involve itself in wars to help establish some sense of humanity?"
So that would be establishing. Right there.
Quote:
Yes, I guess 30 years ago, my words would ring truer than what they do today. (you may want to ask yourself why that is and look at our society as a whole for the answer) However, I must believe our men and women in the military 'today' and all those involved, there is that sense of humanity left and they will rise above corporate influence.
Right.
Except for it's increasingly corporations that decide where to send "our men and women in the military" and when.
Quote:
Corporate influence is more in the political field, where as they, provide campaign funds.
Uhmm... And then those who received those funds decide where to send the troops. After all did they receive funds for nothing you think?
Quote:
Tell me if you as an individual wouldn't do the same and fund those who you think would make appropriate leaders according to your morals and ethics.
As individual I probably would do the same and fund those who I think would make "appropriate leaders," the only problem with this scenario is, that those who are ready to pay to "inappropriate leaders" ( in my opinion) have more money to pay. Then what?
Quote:
Russia and her national interest, does that include humanity?
Russians are part of humanity. Or do you think they are some alien race?
Quote:
Are they rescuing people from oppression environment?
Yes, from oppression of radical Islam, that these people (women in particular)
wouldn't be turned into this
Is it included into "sense of humanity" or what?
Quote:
Did Syria threaten their national interest? If so, how?
Yes, Russian national interests have been threatened with possible removal of Assad. You didn't know that I guess))))
I just don't understand the right wing's bromance with shirtless guy Putin.
What's there not to love?
Here comes the man who aggressively goes after his financial interests on global scale, not shying away from military use if needed. A man who subjected the whole country under the rule of few big corporations, the country where the government doesn't preoccupy itself with regulations imposed on corporate business, but becoming an inseparable part of these giants instead, and going hand in hand with them. A man who is not very concerned with "little people" that don't get along with his plans, and who are simply eliminated if they interfere with them.
*The alpha-male* that wears $ 100000000000 watch on his wrist, likes to drive in the fast lane, pose for shirtless op-eds and hunt in the wilderness.
The right-wing ppl might speak different tongue and live in a different country, but instinctively they know that he is one of them, and that's the kind of leader they crave.
And the unintended bonus?
Putin's leaning on church - a different nomination church, but church nevertheless.
The US criticizes Russia because Russia is the number one talking point when it comes to justification of the defense budget and high profit weapons programs.
The US on one hand states Russia has poor strategy, poor equipment, blah blah, yet states Russia is the biggest threat, and need things like the F-22 to stay competitive, etc. Basically the military industrial complex needs money, Russia provides it. It was the US who wanted the USSR to stay together, when it went, they feared their golden goose went as well, thank goodne$$ for terrorism and Russia's rapid recovery. That is the money side.
Also, the US still has a large, influential number of people who grew up during the Cold War, and Russia to them means "Soviet", this is why you get the goof-ball "communist Russia" and "Putin wants the Soviet Union back" claims thrown around, I imagine these same types are sad Red Dawn never gave them their hero chance in life. Anyway, it is impossible for these people to ever think different than the Cold War thought, it drives everything they do foreign policy wise. Russia killing civilians is bad, Saudi Arabian killing civilians is good; US supporting "rebels" is good, Russia supporting rebels is bad; Russia having a base in another country bad, the US having over a 100 bases is good; etc, etc.
Russia of course knows this and that is why it decided to do what the hell they want, because the US has no regard for Russian interest. If the US even once considered Russian interest during this Arab Spring non-sense, Russia would probably be cooperating on the side of the US with Syria. But the line for Russia was Libya, and Russia does not want an Islamic extremist state near its border. Yet somehow the US does not seem to comprehend that Russia does not want such a state, hell, even Iraq is inviting Russia in. The only people who want a radical Islamic state is Saudi Arabia (no surprise) and radical Erdogan (no surprise).
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 28 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,592,007 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir
What? You're spouting some interpretation of scripture from a blog, so in effect what you're saying is "we're good it says so in the bible, if you take every 12th letter of Judges, interleaved with every 15th of Ecclesiastes" but Russia is bad because... REASONS!
Yup, bridge is still for sale, it's right there beside the US being good in Judges and Ecclesiastes, so you know it's no con job.
No, the reason we're up Russia's hind-end about this is the "notus" principle. We can do these things altruistically, but anyone "notus" can't.
Rosenberg is more than a blogger. What he addresses, is the side of this equation no one wants to look at. It doesn't matter what you believe, it doesn't matter what I believe, what matter is those in the ME, their leaders, PMs and Presidents, what they believe. (we can't fight it, until we understand, just what it is we are fighting) They are apocalyptic with some really big ideas and that is the 'end' game they are playing. (Sunni and Shiite since 700 bc) We weren't in it until they decided it was time we had some skin in the game and used airplanes to get our attention.
When Bush called up other countries for help with a war, every one turned him down. No one wanted to participate; the U.S was on their own.
Now, (14 years later) Russia wants to get involved? And what does Russia go do. They hit the U.S. trained operatives. (Gog and Magog) Some say that they are (strategizing) creating a war by proxy or a proxy war. Now why would be up their hind-end over that, gee I wonder, not.
King Abdullah (2005 - )
"Peace in the Middle East and the plight of the Palestinians are of particular concern to King Abdullah. His proposal for a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace, presented at the Beirut Arab Summit in 2002, has been adopted by the League of Arab States and is known as the Arab Peace Initiative.
King Abdullah has been unwavering in his condemnation of terrorism. At the International Counterterrorism Conference in Riyadh in February, 2005, he called for greater international cooperation to fight this global problem."
Quote:
The Contra's were well known
Regan sent in medical supplies.
Quote:
target health clinics and workers for assassination?
I'm not up on current events. Seen it in headlines, have yet to read all about it.
Quote:
Make no mistake, the US only involves itself in wars to establish some form of economic advantage.
We were not in or at war, until they came over here and got our attention. This is an economic war and they for purpose of strategy, made it one.
Rosenberg is more than a blogger. What he addresses, is the side of this equation no one wants to look at. It doesn't matter what you believe, it doesn't matter what I believe, what matter is those in the ME, their leaders, PMs and Presidents, what they believe. (we can't fight it, until we understand, just what it is we are fighting) They are apocalyptic with some really big ideas and that is the 'end' game they are playing. (Sunni and Shiite since 700 bc) We weren't in it until they decided it was time we had some skin in the game and used airplanes to get our attention.
When Bush called up other countries for help with a war, every one turned him down. No one wanted to participate; the U.S was on their own.
Now, (14 years later) Russia wants to get involved? And what does Russia go do. They hit the U.S. trained operatives. (Gog and Magog) Some say that they are (strategizing) creating a war by proxy or a proxy war. Now why would be up their hind-end over that, gee I wonder, not.
Russia coming at the request of the Syrian government; why is the US aiding terrorists to overthrow the Syrian government? The US does not want Russia involved and only a decade from independence, Russia was in no position to get involved, especially coming off of two Chechen wars.
In Gates' book, Gates clearly states what Russia's position was on the US involvement in the Arab Spring, and Syria was Russia's line in the sand.
We just removed through Operation Ajax the democratically elected prime minister, and supported the Shah to take the country onto the path of a dictatorship instead of a democracy.
King Abdullah (2005 - )
"Peace in the Middle East and the plight of the Palestinians are of particular concern to King Abdullah. His proposal for a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace, presented at the Beirut Arab Summit in 2002, has been adopted by the League of Arab States and is known as the Arab Peace Initiative.
King Abdullah has been unwavering in his condemnation of terrorism. At the International Counterterrorism Conference in Riyadh in February, 2005, he called for greater international cooperation to fight this global problem."
Yea, speaks on one hand, acts in another. Saudi Arabia is the source for radical Islam ideology and funding. Most of those 9/11 attackers are from where? The ideology is from where? The money, oh wait, no one seems to know where millions of dollars for Islamic terrorism comes from, and no one knows where all those shiny new weapons and trucks the ISIS come from either... One of two countries to recognize the Taliban government? Saudi Arabia. One of the most brutal regimes in the world? Saudi Arabia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell
Regan sent in medical supplies.
Is this sarcasm? Reagan illegally sold arms to Iran, and used the money to train and arm the Contras, in violation of US law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell
We were not in or at war, until they came over here and got our attention. This is an economic war and they for purpose of strategy, made it one.
We were involved over there long before the 9/11 attacks.
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 28 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,592,007 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
I thought it was a US interest to "involve itself in wars to help establish some sense of humanity?"
So that would be establishing. Right there.
Right.
Except for it's increasingly corporations that decide where to send "our men and women in the military" and when.
Uhmm... And then those who received those funds decide where to send the troops. After all did they receive funds for nothing you think?
As individual I probably would do the same and fund those who I think would make "appropriate leaders," the only problem with this scenario is, that those who are ready to pay to "inappropriate leaders" ( in my opinion) have more money to pay. Then what?
Russians are part of humanity. Or do you think they are some alien race?
Yes, from oppression of radical Islam, that these people (women in particular)
wouldn't be turned into this
Is it included into "sense of humanity" or what?
Yes, Russian national interests have been threatened with possible removal of Assad. You didn't know that I guess))))
I don't care about the 'lily pads'. I don't care, because the U.S. military being positioned all over the globe, is nothing compared to Russia being in one place.
After reading that, ask yourself, are the Russians a part of humanity? If the U.S. military did what Russian military did ... tell me Americans wouldn't be outraged.
About the guy in prison, they have asked the EU to help, end of story. If the article said they had asked the U.S. for assistance then you'd have a point.
I don't care about the 'lily pads'. I don't care, because the U.S. military being positioned all over the globe, is nothing compared to Russia being in one place.
After reading that, ask yourself, are the Russians a part of humanity? If the U.S. military did what Russian military did ... tell me Americans wouldn't be outraged.
About the guy in prison, they have asked the EU to help, end of story. If the article said they had asked the U.S. for assistance then you'd have a point.
The US has been doing what the Russians are doing, only at a rate of ten times more. The only difference is the US and its people declare the moral high ground on what it does. Hell, there is hardly a whisper about what Saudi Arabia is doing in Yemen, and hardly a whisper when Saudi Arabia sent troops into Bahrain to crush the protesters there.
Americans get outraged over stuff like the abu ghraib scandal, but do not even say a word when a drone strike kills one terrorist, but several non-terrorists. The recent hospital mishap was all on the news, but countless houses and apartment buildings never made it to the news where US strikes occurred.
Also, Russia has a limited number of precision guided bombs, so non-terrorists will be killed, and the terrorists are obviously rooted in with the population, so like with Israel, non-terrorists will be killed. But hey, the US is funding this, if it was that much of a concern, the US would stop arming the "rebels". The "rebels" themselves have killed numerous civilians and caused lots of destruction.
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 28 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,592,007 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
Russia coming at the request of the Syrian government; why is the US aiding terrorists to overthrow the Syrian government? The US does not want Russia involved and only a decade from independence, Russia was in no position to get involved, especially coming off of two Chechen wars.
In Gates' book, Gates clearly states what Russia's position was on the US involvement in the Arab Spring, and Syria was Russia's line in the sand.
We just removed through Operation Ajax the democratically elected prime minister, and supported the Shah to take the country onto the path of a dictatorship instead of a democracy.
LOL, yea, that is true.
Yea, speaks on one hand, acts in another. Saudi Arabia is the source for radical Islam ideology and funding. Most of those 9/11 attackers are from where? The ideology is from where? The money, oh wait, no one seems to know where millions of dollars for Islamic terrorism comes from, and no one knows where all those shiny new weapons and trucks the ISIS come from either... One of two countries to recognize the Taliban government? Saudi Arabia. One of the most brutal regimes in the world? Saudi Arabia.
Is this sarcasm? Reagan illegally sold arms to Iran, and used the money to train and arm the Contras, in violation of US law.
We were involved over there long before the 9/11 attacks.
That may be.
Quote:
why is the US aiding terrorists to overthrow the Syrian government?
February 19, 2015: Turkey and the United States formally agreed to (and finally signed) a deal that has Turkey hosting and assisting in the training of Syrian rebels. The U.S. has so far screened nearly 2,000 Syrian rebels to be sent to training at camps in Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Those selected are believed much less likely to be radicalized and the United States hopes to have 3,000 trained and in action by the end of 2015. https://www.strategypage.com/qnd/syria/20150311.aspx
I don't know, you tell me is the U.S. aiding terrorists?
Gates book? Like I've read Gates book.
How did the Iran Contra affair with dear oliver north turn out?
Russia was coming off of something that had to do with the Ukraine. And Russia is in Syria acting on Russia's best interest and none of it has anything to do with humanitarian aid to the people.
This is what I look at. This whole mess is a land grabbing economic power grab. And unless you like Putin for POTUS, you may want to think about the 'end' game and what you would really like to see happen where Russia is concerned. Then Vote, to make it happen.
Yes, I knew the source for 9/11 and the only reason I don't expand on that is because I can not remember the man's name that we had a good report with that in the end the POTUS helped to remove him, only to make matter worse for that situation.
As you said, we were over there before 9/11 ... what was the extent of our involvement?
I know how they see us. Ron Paul brought it us, as well, during his campaign and then had to back peddle himself out of the comment and this is what he said, because he had heard it straight from the horses mouth. There are some things the American people don't want to know about themselves.
"The American people are the blame for their corrupt government, because the American people elected them into office". (they'll be back, make no mistake, they are not done yet)
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 28 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,592,007 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
The US has been doing what the Russians are doing, only at a rate of ten times more. The only difference is the US and its people declare the moral high ground on what it does. Hell, there is hardly a whisper about what Saudi Arabia is doing in Yemen, and hardly a whisper when Saudi Arabia sent troops into Bahrain to crush the protesters there.
Americans get outraged over stuff like the abu ghraib scandal, but do not even say a word when a drone strike kills one terrorist, but several non-terrorists. The recent hospital mishap was all on the news, but countless houses and apartment buildings never made it to the news where US strikes occurred.
Also, Russia has a limited number of precision guided bombs, so non-terrorists will be killed, and the terrorists are obviously rooted in with the population, so like with Israel, non-terrorists will be killed. But hey, the US is funding this, if it was that much of a concern, the US would stop arming the "rebels". The "rebels" themselves have killed numerous civilians and caused lots of destruction.
Did you even read:
"Russia sees its intervention as a bold political move as the Russians describe their work in Syria as a direct attack on ISIL (Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant), which everyone agrees is a major threat. This can be seen by the fact there is little criticism of the Russian move from the Arab media. The Russian intervention also does what no one else dared to do. No one else, not even the Arab states most directly threatened by ISIL, were willing to send in ground forces. Russia sending dozens of warplanes and bombing more effectively (by ignoring the ISIL use of human shields) exposes the timidity of the American led air campaign. The U.S. has been using a very restrictive ROE (Rules of Engagement) that ISIL has exploited by widely using human shields at many of its key bases and personnel in general. As a result the most important ISIL facilities and concentrations of personnel are untouched by the bombing campaign. This plays into a recent scandal where dozens of American intelligence analysts have been leaking accusations that they have been ordered to modify their reports about the impact of the air campaign against ISIL to hide the fact that a lot of the ISIL targets hit were secondary ones ISIL did not see worth deploying human shields (and gunmen to keep the civilians there) to. The ROE also made it difficult to recruit and train Syrian rebels, given the extreme fear of ISIL retribution against anyone seen to be aiding the United States. Like the Arab air forces in Yemen, the Russians have an ROE that ignores human shields and bombs all targets of military value. If these more ruthless attacks do indeed hurt ISIL significantly more than the West will have to rethink its ROE. " Russia: Putting On A Show In Syria
EDIT: if they rethink their ROE, (Vietnam vets were called what, when they returned home) what do you think the American people would do with that information. But Russia can go and do and no one is outraged by it.
I'm not criticizing Russia.....
I love the irony- Putin taking Edward Snowden in, to protect him....
I love Snowden & Putin
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
