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Old 10-08-2015, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,104 posts, read 10,659,001 times
Reputation: 9740

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Quote:
Originally Posted by And D View Post
"Feel free to disagree with those amendments"

Oh for the love of the ridiculous, have mercy! You too and another strawman argument!?!

I do NOT disagree with our Constitution (except the parts that needed to be changed about slaves and such).

Really, who do you think you are to suggest this even in the face of all I have explained here?

Want to be treated in the same way? Feel free to misrepresent the truths of these matters as best you can, but falsehoods won't serve you or your guns well.
Apparently I hit a nerve...
Actually, you do disagree with our Constitution. You've shown that quite well in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by And D View Post
Today's lesson.

If you might argue for tighter gun control, this means you don't respect the Constitution and you are an authoritarian.

Learn something every day...

Not exactly what I've learned today, but to be polite, I'll just leave this lesson from others to remain for others to learn what they will as well.
Tighter gun control that would actually work is one thing. Tighter gun control for the sake of passing more gun laws is another.

 
Old 10-08-2015, 04:00 PM
 
659 posts, read 311,293 times
Reputation: 65
Default The nerve...

"Apparently I hit a nerve... Actually, you do disagree with our Constitution. You've shown that quite well in this thread."

I dare you to provide whatever I wrote that proves your pea-toss claim here -- double dare you.

I hate to think there are so many people who because they can't make a good argument against gun control, resort to these sorts of tactics. Unconstitutional, futile, bad guys will always be able to get guns...

We may not have much respect for our Congress, but compared to what I witness here, thank goodness we have elected representatives rather than popular vote to guide us, to save us from ourselves. On the other hand, I suppose we might just make some progress if not hampered by the NRA influence and their drones.

In any case, if rather than making simple proclamations from out of nowhere, if we could back up the likes of these notions, for example that I "disagree with our Constitution," please do, because I think I would not be the only one to enjoy the entertainment!
 
Old 10-08-2015, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,863,317 times
Reputation: 7399
Quote:
Originally Posted by And D View Post
Please..., forever the suggestion that all is futile, and then of course the pretension that gun enthusiasts are not only protectors of the Constitution but endowed with a special sense of when the Constitution is threatened.

HOW MANY TIMES NEED THIS BE EXPLAINED: we have the SCTUS there for the purpose of insuring laws are not passed that are deemed unconstitutional. With all due respect to gun fans, you are not the constitutional scholars you think you are! Awfully good at raising unwarranted fears about this though!

Not surprising as well is the cause/effect understanding of the Middle East. Anyone want to describe the time in the Middle East when it was not for all practical purposes an "incredible mess?" Say since before Obama's parents were even born...?
You mean the same SCOTUS that twice ruled the internment of Japanese-Americans was Constitutional? Or that warrantless wiretapping of phones was Constitutional? The same court who, in Dred Scott, ruled that African-Americans could not be citizens and that the Federal Government had no power to regulate slavery in new territories? That Supreme Court?

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not about to put all my eggs in that basket and trust that all will end well.
 
Old 10-08-2015, 04:08 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,337 posts, read 26,416,699 times
Reputation: 11335
Not to mention presidents have simply ignored the SCOTUS before. Lincoln wanted the chief justice to be arrested for defending the right of habeas corpus against him.
 
Old 10-08-2015, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,863,317 times
Reputation: 7399
Quote:
Originally Posted by And D View Post
Very true about the extremes, and as such we have good
reason to think a little more critically about what either extreme uses for
propaganda to promote their agenda.
Both sides use propaganda to a point, but the gun control side are masters of lies, manipulation, distortion, and deceit. They are by FAR the worst offenders over groups like the NRA. The NRA for example, might exaggerate it's fear mongering, but groups like Everytown for Gun Safety or Moms Demand Action are outright liars. Gun control advocates are constantly being caught in lies. So when it comes to propaganda, I'll take the pro-gun group, thank you.
Quote:
Where is the point of perfect balance? I think it is when gun enthusiasts
can still do their gun thing but also look at gun control advocates and
rightfully say, there is no more that can reasonably be done to restrict gun
violence.
So again, what does that look like? IMO, banning "assault weapons" based only on cosmetic features, not function, is wrong. Banning standard capacity magazines is wrong. A 2A right to keep and bear a single shot .22 rifle is a useless and infringed upon right, and no doubt a good many gun control advocates would like nothing better than to see the gun culture in America reduced to that.
Quote:
I leave it to either side to broker where that fine balance may lie, but
I am most certainly inclined to support just about ANY steps considered worthy
by gun control advocates that does not impose on law-abiding gun enthusiasts to
have their gun fun in any consequential way.
See, you're not really answering the question. Your just saying things that enable you to avoid answering it. You've got a lot of generalized opinions but no specific solutions in mind.
No doubt that we all would have a very different opinion on just how far those "steps" could go before imposing on gun rights, and that is the question that you aren't answering... where's the line at? We all would have very different idea about where that line is. There's no consensus, if there were we wouldn't be having this discussion.
 
Old 10-08-2015, 04:39 PM
 
2,851 posts, read 3,466,038 times
Reputation: 1200
My big question to the anti gunners always ends with this:

Is it OK to require permits for abortion?
Is it OK to require costly registration to vote?
Is it OK to reinstitute gay marriage bans because straight marriage is still availible?
Should we ban more then 7 Muslims for being together for fear of terrorism?
Should we only allow black and Hispanic males 16-30 to go to and from work or school with no stops outside of food and restrooma?

If no to any, why is it OK to do the same thing to guns? All of the above are examples of gun laws I live under in NY. The SAFE act was passed on a day I was working... saving lives in a hospital. I am ok to save a life, but not defend myself, my wife, or my daughter? I can cite all the statistics in the world showing unequivocally that guns have a positive societal benefit, but my need is to understand why the hypocrisy for some while fighting for others.
 
Old 10-08-2015, 04:51 PM
 
659 posts, read 311,293 times
Reputation: 65
Default Well now, what have we got here...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
You mean the same SCOTUS that twice ruled the internment of Japanese-Americans was Constitutional? Or that warrantless wiretapping of phones was Constitutional? The same court who, in Dred Scott, ruled that African-Americans could not be citizens and that the Federal Government had no power to regulate slavery in new territories? That Supreme Court?

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not about to put all my eggs in that basket and trust that all will end well.
Yes, same that ruled that corporations are people, also to the chagrin of many, but wow..., are we suggesting we take matters into our own hands, or that maybe we know Constitutional law better than our Supreme Court Justices?

This is truly getting rich! I wonder what our Founding Fathers would say to this as well...
 
Old 10-08-2015, 04:57 PM
 
659 posts, read 311,293 times
Reputation: 65
Default More richness...

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Not to mention presidents have simply ignored the SCOTUS before. Lincoln wanted the chief justice to be arrested for defending the right of habeas corpus against him.
I can see the appeal of these arguments for some, because they are so easy to make...

There will always be bad guys. Laws can always be broken. Who dare threaten our Constitution?

Love it!

Now, even better, we can't trust the highest court in the land to decide what is Constitutional or not and presidents who also have no respect for the SCOTUS anyway!

I think I get it now!

We should be sure our bunkers are secure with at least a month of food and water, well stocked with weapons and ammunition, and the Hell with our system of government and all those who don't interpret the laws as we good patriots do. Have I got it right?

Is this perhaps more what will keep people from suggesting I am "against" our Constitution? Is it that I haven't gone entirely vigilante yet?
 
Old 10-08-2015, 05:04 PM
 
659 posts, read 311,293 times
Reputation: 65
"My big question to the anti gunners always ends with this:"

I wish I had more time for this fun, but can you folks really be serious?

Perhaps this question is not for me, but if not, just who -- exactly -- are the "anti gunners" being addressed here?

I for one am not an anti gunner. I feel strongly about maintaining our right to bear arms, upholding our Second Amendment!

This false premise, repeated ad nauseam is just plain dense. I am sorry, but how frustrating! What comes next?

How about I start my next comment like this, "for all of you obsessed with the use of weapons in total disregard for everything and everyone else..."

That a good start you think?

Just asking...
 
Old 10-08-2015, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,863,317 times
Reputation: 7399
Quote:
Originally Posted by And D View Post
Yes, same that ruled that corporations are people, also to the chagrin of many, but wow..., are we suggesting we take matters into our own hands, or that maybe we know Constitutional law better than our Supreme Court Justices?

This is truly getting rich! I wonder what our Founding Fathers would say to this as well...
LOL, absolutely! That's exactly what I'm suggesting!

The founders took careful pains to ensure that the Constitution was written so that even a common man could understand it. They did this by design, because they knew that people would try to contort and invent against the text.

So, when the Supreme Court hands down a ruling, than yes, I think a laymen is in just as relevant a position to challenge the ruling and make a case against it as even a learned scholar.

"""On every question of construction carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.""" —Thomas Jefferson

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