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Remember that $5 trillion of the debt is money owned (liability) to other federal agencies (assets.) Debt held by the public is about $13 trillion. One thing to note is that 75% of the debt is held by other Americans, who earn income from that debt. Foreign investors hold only $6.1 trillion.
Bush was a train wreck but this Obama stuff is making me ashamed to be American. Actually both Bush and now to an even greater extent the Great Destroyer, Obama.
Both the republicans and democrats were critical of Bush for his deficit spending, especially during his second term, which was when the democrats took over control of the purse strings. You can find quotes from both Sen. McCain and Rep. Pelosi trashing Bush for spending like a drunken sailor.
Remember that $5 trillion of the debt is money owned (liability) to other federal agencies (assets.) Debt held by the public is about $13 trillion. One thing to note is that 75% of the debt is held by other Americans, who earn income from that debt. Foreign investors hold only $6.1 trillion.
I will note.......you didn't answer my questions.
This is not true. What a group does might help the argument of one candidate or not but that should not be the standard we set about how people spend their money.
Example. We currently have the debate concerning Planned Parenthood. So groups like NARAL and Planned Parenthood pool their monies and create ads that they use to support their point of view. Yes, this would most likely help the more liberal candidate but why exactly should it be illegal for them to create ads to present their side while candidates can raise and spend a billion dollars freely to demean and attack them?
Both the republicans and democrats were critical of Bush for his deficit spending, especially during his second term, which was when the democrats took over control of the purse strings. You can find quotes from both Sen. McCain and Rep. Pelosi trashing Bush for spending like a drunken sailor.
They may have been critical but they sure didn't vote against it.
McCain had no problem running the wars off budget.
you have a projected income (revenue) of 50,000
you currently have a debt of 10,000
you make a projected budget, which includes paying JUST the interest on the debt of 48,000
you now have a projected surplus of 2,000
during the year, unexpected bills come in...your transmission on your car goes..the hotwater heater's bottom falls out, and the washer/dryer end up being replaced... total of these ADDITIONAL expenses is 4000
so at the end of the year your projected surplus of 2000 turned into a defit of 2000, increasing your outstanding debt now up to 12,000
the fact is that clinton/newt (I say it that way because the budget is not credited/blamed on the POTUS as budgets come out of the house of reps...) had projected budget surpluses...but they( the country) SPENT that surplus adding to the debt.....
when the pennies were all counted they had deficits...to say they had a surplus is a real crooked twist of the truth.... because they spent it and increased the debt
See, thats the problem, the people you were debating with were talking about deficits, not debt. You are combining the 2 terms, and they are not one in the same.
Remember that $5 trillion of the debt is money owned (liability) to other federal agencies (assets.) Debt held by the public is about $13 trillion. One thing to note is that 75% of the debt is held by other Americans, who earn income from that debt. Foreign investors hold only $6.1 trillion.
The way you are expressing the numbers is confusing, either intentionally or unintentionally.
16% social security trust fund
12% held by the Fed (wow)
13% by other fed agencies
Foreign holdings 34.4%
7.2% China
7% Japan
24.8% Domestic non-federal.
Some of this (exact amount not stated) is other levels of government (state, local).
Unless things have changed drastically in the interim the majority of the debt not monetized by the fed (that 12% is jaw droppingly high) or in federal trust funds is held by foreigner states.
Wikipedia gives less detail and the bucketing classifies the federal reserve, state governments, and local governments as a domestic public holders rather than government holder, which you can see if you click through to their source at: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/r....htm#DebtOwner.
"On June 30, 2015, debt held by the public was $13.08 trillion or about 74% of the previous 12 months of GDP.[5][6][7][8] Intragovernmental holdings stood at $5.07 trillion, giving a combined total public debt of $18.15 trillion or about 102% of the previous 12 months of GDP.[7] $6.2 trillion or approximately 47% of the debt held by the public was owned by foreign investors, the largest of which were the People's Republic of China and Japan at about $1.3 trillion and $1.2 trillion respectively for the two countries.[9]"
That $5.07 is about 28%, or 1% less than federal holdings excluding the federal reserve were in the August 2014 data. So, if the federal reserve amount was constant at 12% (which it may or may not be) that would mean 40% is still federal holdings, leaving $18.15 - $5.07 - $6.2 - $18.15 * 12% = $4.7 trillion held by US state governments, US local governments, and US private parties against $6.2 trillion held by foreign holders.
As the debt gets larger and larger and the non-federal holdings leave the country the case for defaulting - not to extract concessions from the Democrats, but as something worth doing for the good of the country in and of itself - grows increasingly strong. Especially as the alternative is watching out of control Democrat Fed chair(wo)men monetize the debt which is setting us up for severe inflation when/if the velocity of money picks back up.
16% social security trust fund
12% held by the Fed (wow)
13% by other fed agencies
Foreign holdings 34.4%
7.2% China
7% Japan
24.8% Domestic non-federal.
Okay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALackOfCreativity
Some of this (exact amount not stated) is other levels of government (state, local).
Close to $750 Billion is held by private pension plans and by State and local government pension plans.
Who doesn't see a problem?
Those notes will have to be liquidated to pay off the pension plans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALackOfCreativity
Unless things have changed drastically in the interim the majority of the debt not monetized by the fed (that 12% is jaw droppingly high) or in federal trust funds is held by foreigner states.
Not as high as Japan.
What is the exchange rate of the Yen?
Oh, yeah, $1 = 199.93 Yen
1 Euro = 134.95 Yen
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALackOfCreativity
As the debt gets larger and larger and the non-federal holdings leave the country the case for defaulting - not to extract concessions from the Democrats, but as something worth doing for the good of the country in and of itself - grows increasingly strong. Especially as the alternative is watching out of control Democrat Fed chair(wo)men monetize the debt which is setting us up for severe inflation when/if the velocity of money picks back up.
It will pick back up, in about 10 years. I have repeatedly predicted 2025 through about 2039 as a period of high Monetary Inflation running about 25% to 35% annually (followed by a period of real Monetary Deflation).
What's all this talk about "dollars?"
There have been no dollars in circulation since 1933.
"Dollar bills" are worthless IOUs (debt).
Congress repudiated them in 1933 (House Joint Resolution 192), and again, in 1934 (Gold Reserve Act of 1934).
If you're an obligated party, I can see that they would concern you.
Otherwise, get rid of them, ASAP.
The deficit is what it is because our elected officials allowed it to happen. They spent more than they took in. It started with Bush and continued with Obama but during both administrations it's Congress who is to blame.
With things are as they are now, it's just going to get worse. Two major factors in effect now guarantee that.
Tax cuts took the wealthiest from rich to uber-rich
The Citizens United ruling allowed for the creation of Super PACs where anyone from anywhere in the world can contribute unlimited funds to our politician's campaigns
With all that money pouring into the campaign coffers of those we elect to represent us, who do you think they are going to really represent? Big money and themselves.
They don't care if they drive the United States into the ground. The uber-wealthy can take their money anywhere in the world and do the same thing there as they do here. The politicians are fat and happy right now and both are where they are because they are dancing happily on our heads. We're too busy to notice because they have us at each others throats.
Not until voters wake up and stop buying the BS spewed about in slick campaign ads (paid for by the uber-wealthy) and we start voting in our own interest will we see a change. Until then we will be forever mired in endless debates about which side of the aisle is really on our side when the real answer is "neither".
There are two different kinds of people, greedy and kind hearted. And kind hearted liberal billionaires like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet finance the democrats.
And Bill Gates does things like help schools in America, like bringing in mobile home libraries for the children in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina (like he did in my neighborhood.) College-Ready Education - Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
Today billionaire CEO's have lower tax rates than middle class Americans, and Warren Buffet uses his political pull to change that. Buffet has so much power with democrats that they name laws after him (but republicans block all laws to raise CEO's tax rates.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffett_Rule
With Buffet saving millions of peoples lives and fighting to lower America's deficits, will you say Buffet is the uber-wealthy who wants to run America into the ground ???
Its CONSERVATIVE/GREEDY billionaires like the Koch brothers who finance the republicans who want to run America into the ground. The only things these greedy CEO's want is low tax rates for CEO's, corporate deregulation, and to abolish government agencies like the EPA that regulate and fine their corporations. What Do the Koch Brothers Want? - Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont
And its not just differences in the billionaires who finance our parties, its also labor unions giving the democrats huge amounts of money (while they give the republicans nothing.) https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php
These unions represent regular working Americans. That's why democrats support high min wages, middle class tax cuts, unemployment benefits, low interest rates on credit cards, low interest student loans, ex.ex. (and the republicans who get 100% of their money from greedy CEO's and large corporations oppose those things.)
Is our government bought and paid for? You damn right it is, you need $900 million dollars to even run for president. But the CEO's and groups giving our politicians the money are as different as night and day (and so are our political parties.)
Q.E. caused the problem you describe and Citizen United had nothing to do with campaign financing. Nothing.
It sucks too many of our citizens are in debt and couldn't take advantage of the easy money to purchase a new car, refinance their mortgages, make new purchases, or start a business.
People forget there is monetary policy (the Fed) and fiscal policy (controlled by Congress's purse strings). We had the monetary policy of QE (aka cheap money), but didn't have a sufficient fiscal policy (stimulus) that would stimulate demand.... which would cause people to buy things...which would cause companies to expand. The stimulus saved a bunch of jobs by plugging states' debt, but it wasn't large enough to create much employment.
Do people not know about fiscal and monetary policy and how they work together?
Last edited by dv1033; 10-07-2015 at 09:40 PM..
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