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That kind of rules of engagement is usually reserved for countries at war. In current situations, the rules of engagement would be to escort the bomber out of Turkish airspace.
Its quite relevant since it proves that Turkey shot it for no reason and using the 17 second border as its excuse.
You are demonstrating a basic blindness that often leads politicians to make mistakes.
Nobody does anything for "no reason." The Turks certainly had a reason, and to take such a clearly serious action indicates that their reason is very serious to them. That's the kind of thing that's necessary to determine and recognize, not to ignore, because it's going to be a factor in their future actions.
That's how you get your planes shot down without realizing the other guy thinks the war is on. That's why Pearl Harbor was a surprise.
Another naive post from you. You seem to be great at this.
Turkey preplanned to shot a bomber from behind from supposedly crossing into its border for 17 seconds.
Funny how you seem to think that Russia is crying about unfairness when in reality leaders from so many countries including NATO are saying that Turkey actions were unwarranted.
You will have to prove the preplanning.
They are crying. The forum is full of Russians and Russian apologists crying about the unfairness the shooting.
You are demonstrating a basic blindness that often leads politicians to make mistakes.
The blindness comes from people that have personal reasons for doing things that causes mistakes like Turkey.
Quote:
Nobody does anything for "no reason." The Turks certainly had a reason, and to take such a clearly serious action indicates that their reason is very serious to them. That's the kind of thing that's necessary to determine and recognize, not to ignore, because it's going to be a factor in their future actions.
Those reasons have be valid and not personal relating to terrorist. Their futher actions will determine if they lose aircraft or go to war.
That kind of rules of engagement is usually reserved for countries at war. In current situations, the rules of engagement would be to escort the bomber out of Turkish airspace.
Countries can defend their borders be they at war or not. The Russians have been violating Turkish airspace routinely, and eventually the Turks took action and shot one down, and that was after issuing ten warnings.
You will have to prove the preplanning. The evidence is already there as certain leaders are already saying it look that way
They are crying. The forum is full of Russians and Russian apologists crying about the unfairness the shooting.
I see a forum full of people who don't take Turkey version of things as it makes no sense. I see certain people who dislike Russia and will believe anything against it regardless of what happened.
Countries can defend their borders be they at war or not. The Russians have been violating Turkish airspace routinely, and eventually the Turks took action and shot one down, and that was after issuing ten warnings.
Countries don't normally shot planes for a 17 second crossing of border. Turkey has been violating countless countries airspaces including Syria. The Turks took action because the oil supply has gotten harder to hide because of Russia bombing. No one has proved ten warnings were ever given.
What is being set is dangerous precedent, as it's not just Russian airplanes who sometimes clip airspace. Turkish fighters do as well (as they even did to shoot down this bomber, and have done before in Syria as well) and so do American airplanes. What we will see here, is a beginning to an end of this gentlemen conduct, and everyone's planes being shot down all over the place.
There isn't war going on at those other borders. There is war going on in Syria. This seems to be something everyone who throws up the "everyone clips airspace" argument which doesn't even apply here. This was a border overflight, which hardly anyone does, even the Russians. And again, when those occur is not while on an actual combat mission.
The fact that this FENCER was on a combat mission makes a huge difference. That's why, for instance, US planes were not given continental European overflight permission for OPERATION EL DORADO CANYON when usually US planes can get permission for training and exercises over those same countries.
This is no precedent. I have no doubt Russia understands Turkish concerns, proxies, and alliances. They may have underestimated the extent the Turks would go, given sufficient pretext...or rather, underestimated what the Turks considered "sufficient pretext."
Kind of the way Saddam Hussein underestimated what Cheney and Rumsfeld considered "sufficient pretext."
Attempting to ally with Sunnis against other Sunnis will always result in failure. That's one of the things people are ignoring here that nobody in any uniform can afford to ignore. The Turks are not and will not be reliable allies against ISIS. Nor are the Saudis, nor are Iraqi Sunnis.
The blindness comes from people that have personal reasons for doing things that causes mistakes like Turkey.
Those reasons have be valid and not personal relating to terrorist. Their futher actions will determine if they lose aircraft or go to war.
You seem to have drawn conclusions about how other nations should think about things that have no relation to how they really think about things. Kind of like Cheney and Rumsfeld honestly believing that once we got rid of Saddam Hussein, Iraqi forces would gladly collaborate with US forces.
The Turks have a border with Syria that, as far as they are concerned, is only secure if Sunnis are in control of the other side. Anyone working for any different outcome is not in their view really an ally. They clearly believe they can push that point harder when a Russian plane on a combat mission crosses their territorial border than they can otherwise. "Sufficient pretext" is very much subjective.
I learned long ago, "Look at the game from your opponent's side of the board."
he evidence is already there as certain leaders are already saying it look that way
I see a forum full of people who don't take Turkey version of things as it makes no sense. I see certain people who dislike Russia and will believe anything against it regardless of what happened.
Where is the evidence?
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