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Growing up in the 80s, I knew and dated plenty of traditional young men who did not stop me from being independent. It is possible to have both kinds of tendencies.
I think that's the whole point this writer is trying to make. In an attempt to cast off the negative aspects of traditional roles, what's left is so undefined that people growing up today are like bowling balls bouncing off those kiddie bumpers.
You can see evidence of it here on the Relationships forum. There's no rules! Are there rules? When should I text? Does she text first? How many days after a date should I contact her? No sex in the first date! Sex on the third date or hit the bricks!! We had sex but he stopped texting. Does he still like me?
It's like some people truly don't know their asses from a hole in the ground.
Many people will immediately write this article off because of its political bias and because of her call to action that only addresses women. But I do think she has a couple of good points: 1) there are fundamental differences between men and women when it comes to sex and 2) the hook-up culture is ultimately unfulfilling.
So now what?
There are no rules, ahh the joys of chaos in a post-modern society.
Societal ills? You mean sex positivity? Does there need to be a solution? Certainly not chastity belts and certificates of purity.
I think better sex education is a good place to start, and a society that doesn't treat sex as something to be ashamed of, that it is dirty or evil if it falls outside the institution of marriage. Perhaps raising children in a culture that embraces choice and bodily autonomy, but also stresses the importance of discernment, respect for others, and communication.
Sex positivity doesn't need to be: "have all the sex, even if it's bad or unfulfilling sex." There is a counterculture to puritanism, and I think the behaviors of youth are what you'd come to expect of youth, especially when it comes to being able to make these sort of choices without the type of stigma that existed in previous generations. But instead of the "Look what I/we can do now! We're having loads of fun! See!" a counter to misogynistic and sexist dogma, there should be more honest discussions from much earlier ages, painting sex in a neutral light, not as something one needs to act out by giving the middle finger to patriarchy.
This sort of behavior reminds me of rumspringa where the teens or young adults go all wild with their newfound freedom without considering the consequences to these decisions. When I say consequences, in this context, I don't mean rape or sexual assault. I am referring to the consequences of not fully thinking about one's actions and the dynamics associated with them. For instance in the other article it touched on the issue of consensual sex does not always equate to good sex. If women or men want good sex they need to advocate for that. They need to know what they want and communicate it, but to know this means a little introspection, and how many late teens or early (or mid) 20s are introspective in this way? (but to know what they want they need to be comfortable with their bodies and sexuality, and simply having a lot of sex does not mean one is truly comfortable -- free of guilt, shame and negative associations, with their sexuality).
Women are giving it (and getting, but is it fulfilling?) and men are taking it, but are all parties making choices they're comfortable with or feel good about? There is nothing wrong with casual sex, but casual sex can still be good sex when both parties respect each other and are open and honest about what they want and don't want. However, respect needs to be cultivated from a young age, where sex and women having sex, are not "bad" things, where female sexuality is taken as seriously as male sexuality. That is to say women aren't play things for men, do not owe anyone sex, and deserve respect. Perhaps one day women having sex, even casual sex, will be respected and not seen as a silly display of rebellion.
Are you of the opinion that anyone that questions the merit and validity of casual sex and the hook up culture wants to revert back to chastity belts and certificates of purity?
Whose job is it to provide sex education? Why do you give even the slightest care what "society" thinks of a woman enjoying her casual encounters? Are you not only giving society that power over you by ranting against it?
Are you of the opinion that anyone that questions the merit and validity of casual sex and the hook up culture wants to revert back to chastity belts and certificates of purity?
Are you suggesting women abstain from sex until they're in a serious relationship or marriage? What does it matter to you what women do with their sexuality? Why do you care what other people do with their sexuality? What I care about is quality, respect, communication, fulfillment, however that is achieved, whether in a serious relationship or through casual encounters.
I'm not assigning any value judgment on casual sex, as you appear to be.
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Whose job is it to provide sex education?
Uh, the parents. And sex ed is addressed in schools, although quite poorly in most cases.
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Why do you give even the slightest care what "society" thinks of a woman enjoying her casual encounters?
Because certain attitudes are further reinforced by culture. These attitudes are shaped at a young age and adolescence by the individual's environment, the world view and attitudes they're exposed to, and their culture. When a culture sees women's sexuality (and women) in a certain light or view women's sexuality, whatever that may be, in a negative light, we get aspects of rape culture.
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Are you not only giving society that power over you by ranting against it?
Um, no. In order to effect change new attitudes have to be cultivated somewhere, and where would that be if not at the early stages of cognitive development, social interactions and relationship dynamics? These changes, overtime, affect the culture in which one lives.
Your question is like "How do we address the issue of racism and combat prejudice and various forms of racism?"
Well, for starters, you address it at its root... at the home and closest influences, from early stages of learning and associations.
That page wanted to put so many cookies on my computer it nearly crashed my browser.
There is a simple solution to campus rape: MEN STOP RAPING.
1. Did she say "no?" "No" means NO.
2. Is she drunk? That means NO.
3. Are you drunk? That means NO.
4. Did she not say "yes?" That means NO.
Is it really that difficult? Don't want to be accused of rape? Have consensual sex when sober. That's it. There is then no question of capacity on her end, and no excuse of incapacity on his.
Good men wont rape women but this is the result of good men not stepping up because they have no say in our society and are treated with contempt. Its like the cop patting the "child" in your examply on the head after she just cussed you out. Many men are checked out of society other than what they have to do to have some nice things and what ever girl friend or prostitute they can find.
It is not as magnified as much yet becasue we still have alot of the older married generation around that are making this situation look less bad, as they die off you will start seeing the USA for the useless vapid sorry excuse for a country that it is.
The women got picked up by their white knight and take back to the castle and then once safe they wanted to call the shots and change the rules fo the knights castle lol, and they did it, for now.
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Originally Posted by orangeapple
I don't know if I remember this correctly...but it seems the consequence of removing "benevolent sexism" aka, men showing honor to women out of a moral sense to protect the "weaker sex". Chivalry is the word for it. Since that also suggest some inferiority socially and perhaps intellectually (women were kind of like children), many feminists reject it, but there is an angry reaction from some men, whether conscious or not. It is kind of like, "Hey, you want to change the system, well, the good stuff is going to go with it." How that justifies disrespecting and even violating other people (some who happen to be women), I don't know.
This is not my opinion, just something I read that seemed connected.
Personally, I am not sure why "equality" means the lowest common denominator....
That page wanted to put so many cookies on my computer it nearly crashed my browser.
There is a simple solution to campus rape: MEN STOP RAPING.
1. Did she say "no?" "No" means NO.
2. Is she drunk? That means NO.
3. Are you drunk? That means NO.
4. Did she not say "yes?" That means NO.
Is it really that difficult? Don't want to be accused of rape? Have consensual sex when sober. That's it. There is then no question of capacity on her end, and no excuse of incapacity on his.
The problem isn't that simple in all cases.
You have kids who do things that later regret doing them who in turn start throwing people under buses to make up for their lack of better judgment calls simply because they can. fear of Social stigma, regret or unwanted complications...just a plain miserable vengeful person...whatever drives them to do it, it happens all the time.
You're also assuming both parties are functionally coherent and both not drinking or drunk to have comprehension skills to stop what seems like it is consensual in those moments. Which more often than not in situations where booze it flowing freely, it's not the case.
These are the type of moments where things get dicey and people start throwing blame around and the actual equality issues start presenting themselves front and center.
Last edited by rego00123; 10-23-2015 at 12:49 AM..
Also there used to be financial and possibly legal consequences for women who did not tow the line. If it was just grandma at church giving the young women stink eye there would have been no reason for the feminist movement.
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Originally Posted by Metaphysique
Are you suggesting women abstain from sex until they're in a serious relationship or marriage? What does it matter to you what women do with their sexuality? Why do you care what other people do with their sexuality? What I care about is quality, respect, communication, fulfillment, however that is achieved, whether in a serious relationship or through casual encounters.
I'm not assigning any value judgment on casual sex, as you appear to be.
Uh, the parents. And sex ed is addressed in schools, although quite poorly in most cases.
Because certain attitudes are further reinforced by culture. These attitudes are shaped at a young age and adolescence by the individual's environment, the world view and attitudes they're exposed to, and their culture. When a culture sees women's sexuality (and women) in a certain light or view women's sexuality, whatever that may be, in a negative light, we get aspects of rape culture.
Um, no. In order to effect change new attitudes have to be cultivated somewhere, and where would that be if not at the early stages of cognitive development, social interactions and relationship dynamics? These changes, overtime, affect the culture in which one lives.
Your question is like "How do we address the issue of racism and combat prejudice and various forms of racism?"
Well, for starters, you address it at its root... at the home and closest influences, from early stages of learning and associations.
Unless she regrets it the next day, then its your word against hers. Take a guess how well thats going to go for the guy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasperJade
That page wanted to put so many cookies on my computer it nearly crashed my browser.
There is a simple solution to campus rape: MEN STOP RAPING.
1. Did she say "no?" "No" means NO.
2. Is she drunk? That means NO.
3. Are you drunk? That means NO.
4. Did she not say "yes?" That means NO.
Is it really that difficult? Don't want to be accused of rape? Have consensual sex when sober. That's it. There is then no question of capacity on her end, and no excuse of incapacity on his.
But only the man in responsible in this case, she gets to go get sloshed on free drinks at a party and yell and put her hands in the air with her boobs hanging out teasing all the guys around her who are finanicing the party but then gets to play the rape card when some bad calls are made.
Hopefully guys start waking up and stop giving women a free ride. If she is interested they can go have coffee and have sex if she is not she can go back to her dorm and do homework or watch TV. I dont know any guys that actually have fun at these parties unless they are getting some play as a result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rego00123
The problem isn't that simple in all cases.
You have kids who do things that later regret doing them who in turn start throwing people under buses to make up for their lack of better judgment calls simply because they can.
You're also assuming both parties are functionally coherent and both not drinking or drunk to have comprehension skills to stop what seems like it is consensual in those moments.
These are the type of moments where things get dicey and people start throwing blame around and the actual equality issues start presenting themselves front and center.
I don't know if I remember this correctly...but it seems the consequence of removing "benevolent sexism" aka, men showing honor to women out of a moral sense to protect the "weaker sex". Chivalry is the word for it. Since that also suggest some inferiority socially and perhaps intellectually (women were kind of like children), many feminists reject it, but there is an angry reaction from some men, whether conscious or not. It is kind of like, "Hey, you want to change the system, well, the good stuff is going to go with it." How that justifies disrespecting and even violating other people (some who happen to be women), I don't know.
This is not my opinion, just something I read that seemed connected.
Personally, I am not sure why "equality" means the lowest common denominator....
Let's face it: Women don't need men the same way they used to. It's not that we don't need men at all. It's that we need them for different reasons now, and some men haven't found their place in that yet, so they resent it and lash out.
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