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Its quite a suitable analogy. You werent talking about government welfare, but you said that they should clean up their mess, take responsibility and fight at home.
Well, America is based on people who exactly did not what you said. People who "ran away"/immigrated instead of having themselves butchered. (Including many germans)
Then why were the irish so much looked down upon and discriminated? Millions of irish fled the great famine, instead of "cleaning up their own mess and taking responsibility".
The Irish Times wrote a pretty good article on that lately.
All of a sudden its about government subsidies. The fact remains that hundreds of millions of people who fled did not abide by your motto and ran away instead of "cleaning up" stuff, because they dont want to die. Its the norm to act that way and not the exception.
Btw. Saddam Hussein was a socialist and not religious.
Just like 99% of all refugees in the history of mankind and most of the ancestors of all americans.
Sure. In a war where both sides are evil, you would grab your gun, have you and your family killed and achieve nothing, because you are too worried to make your problems someone elses. You would sacrifice yourself for that. Hard to believe, but you are one in a trillion then.
Historical question. I am german as you know. If you had lived in 1941 and you would get to choose from three options, would you have fought for Stalin or Hitler or would you have escaped if you had the chance?
I wouldnt have to think for a second.
Why is it you, apparently a cultural Marxist, can't understand that America was made by and for Western Europeans? Europe was not made by and for middle eastern (and African and Asian) Muslim. The muslims are historically a 1300 year enemy of western Europe. America was pan-European from its founding. It was the British, Irish, German, Dutch.
Stop playing. The muslim leaders, the UN and progressives in the EU coordinated this whole muslim invasion of Europe.
First i am pro ISIS, now i am a marxist, lol....Whats next? An Alien?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1
Why is it you, apparently a cultural Marxist, can't understand that America was made by and for Western Europeans? Europe was not made by and for middle eastern (and African and Asian) Muslim. The muslims are historically a 1300 year enemy of western Europe. America was pan-European from its founding. It was the British, Irish, German, Dutch.
Because thats not the topic at all.
You also forgot the Spanish, Chinese, Native Americans, African Slaves and what not. But apparently you dont include the last three in your version of it.
Last time i read your constitution it explicitly said that no religion shall be established and that all people enjoy the same rights and priviliges. Not only europeans.
But we were talking about why people flee. And Syrians do it for the same reason British, German, Irish or Dutch do. They want to get away from wars, persecution, poverty, famines. Thats it, thats all, nothing special about it. Now how we deal with it is a whole different ballgame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1
Stop playing. The muslim leaders, the UN and progressives in the EU coordinated this whole muslim invasion of Europe.
Really, how and where? Do you have any kind of evidence? And why should they do that, whats the point?
Its quite a suitable analogy. You werent talking about government welfare, but you said that they should clean up their mess, take responsibility and fight at home.
Well, America is based on people who exactly did not what you said. People who "ran away"/immigrated instead of having themselves butchered. (Including many germans)
Then why were the irish so much looked down upon and discriminated? Millions of irish fled the great famine, instead of "cleaning up their own mess and taking responsibility".
The Irish Times wrote a pretty good article on that lately.
All of a sudden its about government subsidies. The fact remains that hundreds of millions of people who fled did not abide by your motto and ran away instead of "cleaning up" stuff, because they dont want to die. Its the norm to act that way and not the exception.
Btw. Saddam Hussein was a socialist and not religious.
Just like 99% of all refugees in the history of mankind and most of the ancestors of all americans.
Sure. In a war where both sides are evil, you would grab your gun, have you and your family killed and achieve nothing, because you are too worried to make your problems someone elses. You would sacrifice yourself for that. Hard to believe, but you are one in a trillion then.
Historical question. I am german as you know. If you had lived in 1941 and you would get to choose from three options, would you have fought for Stalin or Hitler or would you have escaped if you had the chance?
I wouldnt have to think for a second.
You trivialized subsidies. You ignored what the Irish and the American settlers did to help themselves (without a government hand-out).
MY Germanic ancestors did not "immigrate instead of having themselves butchered. (Including many germans)". Help me out a little here, just where and when in the 19th century were the Irish and Germans getting butchered?
Small point ... Saddam was a Muslim and whether or not he was active ... only Saddam knew, and now he's not telling.
And another small point, since you are German, you should know the war began 1 Sep 1939. So by 1941, Germans had already made their choice. For the Germans, it was fighting for the Fatherland ... not Adolph (unless you were SS), for the Russians, it was fighting for Mother Russia ... not Uncle Joe.
So escaping persecution is your battle cry ... then why are they flocking to Germany instead of just crossing the boarder? Also, there are groups who are fighting the oppression (regardless of the source).
I appreciate your estimate of my virtue, but it hardly constitutes "one in a trillion"... if nothing else, the Kurds prove that.
First i am pro ISIS, now i am a marxist, lol....Whats next? An Alien?
Because thats not the topic at all.
It is the topic. You are comparing apples and oranges and claiming they are the same.
Quote:
You also forgot the Spanish, Chinese, Native Americans, African Slaves and what
not. But apparently you dont include the last three in your version of it.
I didn't include people who were not included in America and insignificant in developing America at the time. The Amerindians were their own tribal nations conflicting with colonist, the Africans were as you said slaves that shouldn't have been brought here for that purpose, The Chinese were insignificant quest workers until the 1965 immigration act. The Spanish, who are European anyway, were mostly in latin America and were excluded by the British Colonies. Do I have to explain the entire American history to you?
Quote:
Last time i read your constitution it explicitly said that no religion shall be
established and that all people enjoy the same rights and priviliges. Not only
europeans.
Actually the constitution was talking about white Europeans obviously. Remember that slave thing? Dred Scott some 80 years later? It was the 1965 immigration act that first opened the immigration up to non-Europeans.
Quote:
But we were talking about why people flee. And Syrians do it for the same reason British, German, Irish or Dutch do. They want to get away from wars, persecution, poverty, famines. Thats it, thats all, nothing special about it. Now how we deal with it is a whole different ballgame.
FALSE. What you have in Europe is akin to the illegal aliens pouring into America from the southern border. They are economic and cultural colonizers. The only difference is Europe's colonizers are muslim colonizers.
So it's important to recognize something for what it is before you decide how to deal with it.
It's amazing how the left wing cockroaches continue to rationalize their atrocities in Europe. Conservatives need to pay attention to this: leftists are not people to be dealt with in good faith. They are not well meaning or misguided. They are vermin, to be treated accordingly.
You trivialized subsidies. You ignored what the Irish and the American settlers did to help themselves (without a government hand-out).
I just wondered why you brought that up, because at first you talked about taking responsibility and fighting at the homefront. And i pointed out that the large majority of people in the history of the world dont do that and prefer to survive. And thats still a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Nox
MY Germanic ancestors did not "immigrate instead of having themselves butchered. (Including many germans)". Help me out a little here, just where and when in the 19th century were the Irish and Germans getting butchered?
I was not talking about the 19th century specifically (not sure why you pinpointed that). Alot of germans fled religious persecution and wars. So did many irish (whereas most of them fled for economic reasons).
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Nox
Small point ... Saddam was a Muslim and whether or not he was active ... only Saddam knew, and now he's not telling.
Nope. We know he was a socialist. Those guys have never been religious. You know what his last words where on the gallow? The Islamic creed people say when they convert to islam. What does this tell us? Whatever, not that important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Nox
And another small point, since you are German, you should know the war began 1 Sep 1939. So by 1941, Germans had already made their choice. For the Germans, it was fighting for the Fatherland ... not Adolph (unless you were SS), for the Russians, it was fighting for Mother Russia ... not Uncle Joe.
I mentioned 1941, because thats when we entered war with Russia, before that we were Allies. You didnt answer my question.
Stalin, Hitler or escape?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Nox
So escaping persecution is your battle cry ... then why are they flocking to Germany instead of just crossing the boarder? Also, there are groups who are fighting the oppression (regardless of the source).
I appreciate your estimate of my virtue, but it hardly constitutes "one in a trillion"... if nothing else, the Kurds prove that.
There are only islamist forces fighting amongst each other and with assads forces. A few Christians and the socialist kurds. As a sunni arab you cant just join them like that. But thats not the final point. Many people dont want to kill or die or put their families and children at risk.
She is creating a cultural powder keg that will erupt in violence. Only an a moron for a statesman would create such a volatile, dangerous situation for her nation.
And, obuma wants 100,00-200,000 peaceful refugees moved here
It is the topic. You are comparing apples and oranges and claiming they are the same.
Unfortunately not. The topic was why people flee and wether its a conspiracy. Your answer was that america is for white europeans only. When that was neither the question nor the way america was designed.
Europe is a little different story, but modern european states are not designed that way either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1
I didn't include people who were not included in America and insignificant in developing America at the time. The Amerindians were their own tribal nations conflicting with colonist, the Africans were as you said slaves that shouldn't have been brought here for that purpose, The Chinese were insignificant quest workers until the 1965 immigration act. The Spanish, who are European anyway, were mostly in latin America and were excluded by the British Colonies. Do I have to explain the entire American history to you?
The fact alone, that america could work as a solely pan-european concept, when you had a significant number of non-europeans there from the get-go alone is enough for me.
But that is not the question and not my problem. You are free to believe whatever you want. But if there are ever racial or ethnic issues coming up in america, your mindset seems to be part of the problem and not part of the solution. Just my subjective observation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1
Actually the constitution was talking about white Europeans obviously. Remember that slave thing? Dred Scott some 80 years later? It was the 1965 immigration act that first opened the immigration up to non-Europeans.
Can you point me to the part where the constitution points to white christians only?
And even i - across the pond- know that non-european migration has taken place long before 1965.
Check this out:
But again, how is that related to the issue at hand? We can agree to disagree about all these points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1
FALSE. What you have in Europe is akin to the illegal aliens pouring into America from the southern border. They are economic and cultural colonizers. The only difference is Europe's colonizers are muslim colonizers.
So it's important to recognize something for what it is before you decide how to deal with it.
So what ominous force is behind this scheme to destroy the white christian man? I still dont get the logic behind it.
The UN, progressives, muslims etc.?
Sounds like a pretty unlikely alliance and more like all the things you dislike in one place.
Like i said, i am all for sending the refugees back once its safe again down there. And before that, we should make sure that refugee camps are being built close to the conflict zones, so that their return will be more easy to organize.
It's amazing how the left wing cockroaches continue to rationalize their atrocities in Europe. Conservatives need to pay attention to this: leftists are not people to be dealt with in good faith. They are not well meaning or misguided. They are vermin, to be treated accordingly.
Wonderful. A right-winger advocating the persecution and execution of those who don't follow your political views. Sieg Heil!
Twocents, I don't know what your angle is but you keep squirming and trying to confuse the issue.
I'm telling you multiculturalism doesn't work, has never worked and can't work well. You can't fight nature and biology's plan for groups to evolve differently and incompatibly. Especially not with muslims, Africans and middle easterners. The 'migrants' are not refugees but colonizers. You're part right. America was a white country until after the 1960s, but we've had 100 of years of experience of living among other races. Combine that today with the multiculturalism and socioethnic marxism political movement and it's really bad. Americans are just trying to give you friendly advice from experience. You want to reject it and just think white Americans are to blame for multiculturalism's problems, but you'll see. Europe is ruined if you don't get these invaders out now.
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