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Old 10-25-2015, 06:18 PM
 
5,913 posts, read 3,183,485 times
Reputation: 4397

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Here's some basic definitions for you. You clearly do not understand gender identity. It's ok. I'm sure lots of people don't. Start with the basics and then move on from there. Cheers.

Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Definitions

Sexual orientation

An inherent or immutable enduring emotional, romantic or sexual attraction to other people.

Gender identity

One's innermost concept of self as male, female, a blend of both or neither – how individuals perceive themselves and what they call themselves. One's gender identity can be the same or different from their sex assigned at birth.

Gender expression

External appearance of one's gender identity, usually expressed through behavior, clothing, haircut or voice, and which may or may not conform to socially defined behaviors and characteristics typically associated with being either masculine or feminine.

Transgender

An umbrella term for people whose gender identity and/or expression is different from cultural expectations based on the sex they were assigned at birth. Being transgender does not imply any specific sexual orientation. Therefore, transgender people may identify as straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc.

Gender transition

The process by which some people strive to more closely align their internal knowledge of gender with its outward appearance. Some people socially transition, whereby they might begin dressing, using names and pronouns and/or be socially recognized as another gender. Others undergo physical transitions in which they modify their bodies through medical interventions. Read more.

Gender dysphoria

Clinically significant distress caused when a person's assigned birth gender is not the same as the one with which they identify. According to the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), the term – which replaces Gender Identity Disorder – "is intended to better characterize the experiences of affected children, adolescents, and adults."


Visit HRC's Coming Out Center for more information and resources on living openly and authentically. Source: Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Definitions

Sexual orientation

An inherent or immutable enduring emotional, romantic or sexual attraction to other people.

Gender identity

One's innermost concept of self as male, female, a blend of both or neither – how individuals perceive themselves and what they call themselves. One's gender identity can be the same or different from their sex assigned at birth.

Gender expression

External appearance of one's gender identity, usually expressed through behavior, clothing, haircut or voice, and which may or may not conform to socially defined behaviors and characteristics typically associated with being either masculine or feminine.

Transgender

An umbrella term for people whose gender identity and/or expression is different from cultural expectations based on the sex they were assigned at birth. Being transgender does not imply any specific sexual orientation. Therefore, transgender people may identify as straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc.

Gender transition

The process by which some people strive to more closely align their internal knowledge of gender with its outward appearance. Some people socially transition, whereby they might begin dressing, using names and pronouns and/or be socially recognized as another gender. Others undergo physical transitions in which they modify their bodies through medical interventions. Read more.

Gender dysphoria

Clinically significant distress caused when a person's assigned birth gender is not the same as the one with which they identify. According to the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), the term – which replaces Gender Identity Disorder – "is intended to better characterize the experiences of affected children, adolescents, and adults."


Visit HRC's Coming Out Center for more information and resources on living openly and authentically. Source: Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Definitions | Resources | Human Rights Campaign
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:16 AM
 
906 posts, read 711,920 times
Reputation: 578
Quote:
Gender identity

One's innermost concept of self as male, female, a blend of both or neither – how individuals perceive themselves and what they call themselves. One's gender identity can be the same or different from their sex assigned at birth.
This is like a short man feeling he is tall.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Iceland
876 posts, read 1,000,715 times
Reputation: 1018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday View Post
Sexual orientation

An inherent or immutable enduring emotional, romantic or sexual attraction to other people.
Ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday View Post
Gender identity

One's innermost concept of self as male, female, a blend of both or neither – how individuals perceive themselves and what they call themselves. One's gender identity can be the same or different from their sex assigned at birth.
So gender is basically just whatever people decide it is? If so, then doesn't that just render the actual term gender meaningless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday View Post
Gender expression

External appearance of one's gender identity, usually expressed through behavior, clothing, haircut or voice, and which may or may not conform to socially defined behaviors and characteristics typically associated with being either masculine or feminine.
How is behaving or looking a certain way a form of "gender expression"? How does this so called gender expression accomplish anything else than reinforce gender stereotypes? See, this is EXACTLY what I was talking about when I said gender identity was about buying into a group identity. Why can't people just like to wear pink cloth and drink pink cocktails if that's what they want to do without it being a part of some kind of "gender expression"? Why associate certain kinds of behaviors and clothing with specific genders?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday View Post
Transgender

An umbrella term for people whose gender identity and/or expression is different from cultural expectations based on the sex they were assigned at birth. Being transgender does not imply any specific sexual orientation. Therefore, transgender people may identify as straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc.
Uhm, doesn't this completely contradict the idea that sexual attraction is completely rigid and that people can't identify as gay or straight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday View Post
Gender transition

The process by which some people strive to more closely align their internal knowledge of gender with its outward appearance. Some people socially transition, whereby they might begin dressing, using names and pronouns and/or be socially recognized as another gender. Others undergo physical transitions in which they modify their bodies through medical interventions.
Why even care about your outward appearance at all? Why promote the idea that this matters or should matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday View Post
Gender dysphoria

Clinically significant distress caused when a person's assigned birth gender is not the same as the one with which they identify. According to the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), the term – which replaces Gender Identity Disorder – "is intended to better characterize the experiences of affected children, adolescents, and adults."
If this is a mental disorder why is this promoted as being ok and healthy?
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,761,940 times
Reputation: 24863
I am a reasonably functional male that must have a gender identify problem. I really prefer the companionship of females. I like the way they behave, look and smell. Besides they never, like a big bunch of dead males, tried to kill me.
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:32 PM
 
Location: San Marcos, CA
674 posts, read 610,942 times
Reputation: 792
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post
Ok.



So gender is basically just whatever people decide it is? If so, then doesn't that just render the actual term gender meaningless?
No, it's not meaningless. If we plot people's genders on a graph, we'll see that most people fall into one or two clusters, and some people are either in-between or not really anywhere on the scale.

Most people with the usual male parts feel male. Most people with the usual female parts feel female. There are some exceptions.



Quote:
How is behaving or looking a certain way a form of "gender expression"? How does this so called gender expression accomplish anything else than reinforce gender stereotypes? See, this is EXACTLY what I was talking about when I said gender identity was about buying into a group identity. Why can't people just like to wear pink cloth and drink pink cocktails if that's what they want to do without it being a part of some kind of "gender expression"? Why associate certain kinds of behaviors and clothing with specific genders?
If you feel male, you're allowed to decide how you want to express that, but there are plenty of cultural examples that you're likely conditioned to follow. You can feel as male as possible but then decide that this doesn't preclude you from enjoying things generally thought of as girly (plenty of men like cute things). You can be certain that your mind is female but then decide that this doesn't dictate your tastes in clothing.

Basically, gender is a state of mind, one we can do a pretty good job at measuring sometimes using brain imaging techniques. Female and male brains don't quite look the same when imaged.

Gender expression, though, is mostly cultural. There's no scientific reason for pink to be considered girly.


Quote:
Uhm, doesn't this completely contradict the idea that sexual attraction is completely rigid and that people can't identify as gay or straight?
No, it doesn't contradict that at all. I don't even see how that could be implied.

Whether you're attracted to guys or girls or both (or occasionally neither) might strongly correlate with whether or not your gender matches your biological sex (i.e., whether your mind matches your other parts or not), but that doesn't mean it's something that can be changed at will.

There are really three parts that come into play.

Your biological sex is almost always determined by your chromosomes. If you have XY, your sex is male. If you have XX, your sex is female. (There are unusual exceptions to this, but the basic idea is that you almost always get certain parts when you have certain chromosomes.) This is determined before conception.

Gender, the state of your brain, develops separately and much later on, and it's probably not strictly determined by genes. The brain's final state is not as rigidly determined at conception; it's affected by a host of factors, some of which include genes and some of which include hormones and some of which are just more or less luck. Usually, people with XX develop female brains and people with XY develop male brains, but because brains are not as rigid as other parts, there are a lot more exceptions.

Sexual orientation is one thing the brain does. Most female brains are attracted to males, and most male brains are attracted to females, but because of the complicated way these states develop, there are exceptions. Quite a few exceptions, really.

So, we have three variables here. The first is body. The second is mind. The third is orientation. If we simplify things and give each one two possible values, then the first can be A (female body) or B (male body). The second can be A (female mind) or B (male mind). The third can be A (attracted to females) or B (attracted to males).

So, AAB and BBA are the most common states for humans. However, we see a lot of AAA and BBB, and we see some ABA, ABB, BAA, and BAB.

Quote:
Why even care about your outward appearance at all? Why promote the idea that this matters or should matter?
Outward appearance isn't the issue. There are even perfectly happy straight people with male bodies and male minds who just happen to like wearing dresses. Eddie Izzard may or may not be an example of this, and he has pointed out that the majority of guys who like to wear dresses (i.e., the majority of transvestites) are straight guys.

The important issue here is that we should treat everyone with dignity and respect, and part of that is not throwing a hissy fit every time someone turns out to be trans. The other important issue here is that people with dysphoria really do need treatment.

Quote:
If this is a mental disorder why is this promoted as being ok and healthy?
No one is saying that dysphoria is healthy.

Dysphoria is what happens when you feel the disconnection between your mind and your other parts. I don't have personal experience with it, but it's apparently very unpleasant, and a number of techniques are used to deal with this unpleasantness, up to and including transitional surgery.
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Old 10-26-2015, 03:43 PM
 
5,913 posts, read 3,183,485 times
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Excellent response OwlandSparrow. You answered for me and I really have nothing to add. I think this is enough for the OP to digest. Cheers.
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Old 10-26-2015, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
3,840 posts, read 4,509,702 times
Reputation: 3089
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post
Then what is "being a man" or "being a women" about? What makes somebody a man or a women?



I did not start to care until after they jumped on the victimization bandwagon and started demanding special protection and rights.
Equal protection and rights. Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick, why is that so hard for you people to understand?
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Old 10-27-2015, 01:16 PM
 
13,899 posts, read 6,440,051 times
Reputation: 6960
First of all Liberalism isn't at all about the individual, it's about the collective. It's a hive mentality.
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Old 10-27-2015, 01:25 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,602,543 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post
If you think about it gender identity is actually anti-individualist and thus not liberal. Instead of just focusing on individuals and what they like, the concept of gender identity favors a from of group identity (man vs women) instead. Example:

From an individualist perspective:

"Bob likes wearing pink cloth and he likes to collect dolls. That is because Bob is an individual and this is what he likes doing".

From the transgender/gender identity perspective:

"Bob likes wearing pink cloth and he likes to collect dolls. That is because he is actually a women in a man's body and that is what women like to do".

Progressives are trying to sell us this meme of gender identity by telling us that it makes the individual more free to be what he wants, but how is this true if gender identity favors a group identity over individual identity? Doesn't that make gender identity anti-individualist since it tells people that women=liking certain things and man=liking other things?

Grouping... the term gender in the sentence, makes it toward the "collectivist" liberal socialist and especially the Communist.

There is nothing individual, by placing that individual in a group and painting them all with a wide brush....
Care to try again, redefining an issue that has been resolved long ago, no matter how twisted it gets.
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Old 10-27-2015, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Secure Bunker
5,461 posts, read 3,233,172 times
Reputation: 5269
The Left has always been totally obsessed with Collectivist thinking.
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