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I can understand a patriarchal organization of adulterous males are frightened by ANY of the flock that does not submit to complete obedience to the "Father Knows Best" tyranny but what I cannot understand is why ANY person with more than three functioning brain cells would ever want to be a Mormon. I can see why some weak men are literally enamored with the child rape is acceptable policies of the Mormon elders but why would any woman tolerate it?
I think the victims of this evil cult should be offered deprogramming and the current male elders a long drop on a short rope.
I did! Still why would they want to be a member if the parents are not accepted? Then again, if the kids (adults) choose it even after knowing, isn't it up to the kids to decide, not gay advocates?
Sometimes a teenager from a non-member family will desire to join the church and if their parents give permission they are allowed.Some parents who aren't religious don't object if their children are.Sometimes a parent in the church will decide that they no longer believe in God,or that the baptists or hindus have it right but don't force that belief on their 16 and 17yo sons that were raised in the church and continue to allow them to 'stay the course'.
A lot of parents of converts wouldn't be accepted now for a variety of reasons.If I were 16 and my 'straight' parents have been living together,unmarried,since 1974 I could join the church with their consent.They couldn't however join the church themselves unless they got married,[and quit smoking,drinking,etc].They could however come to church with me if they desired and their lifestyle would have no bearing upon my status or advancement within the church.I could live with them until I went on a mission,I wouldn't have an obligation to renounce their lifestyle of 'living in sin'.I would be treated as any other young mormon,judged on my actions, not my parents.
Until last week a 16yo living with his lesbian non-member mom and her girlfriend would have been treated the same way.....now they won't....how does this make sense???
I still don't understand how they are going to handle things when Dad leaves Mom for Steve but Mom is still a member of the church??They are going to tell the mother of an 8yo that her son can't be baptized for ten more years even though hes still attending church with her every sunday because her husband left her for another man while it would have no impact on the kid if dad left mom for another woman?
Church leaders made some statement about doing this so the kids can mature and consider the impact that gay relationships have on 'family temple sealings',which are important to the church, but plenty of other things impact that too.If your dad leaves your mom for the girl next door or the boy next door or joins the church of scientology that ceremony isn't going to happen and only one of them impacts your baptism,ability to go on a mission,etc.
Sometimes a teenager from a non-member family will desire to join the church and if their parents give permission they are allowed.Some parents who aren't religious don't object if their children are.Sometimes a parent in the church will decide that they no longer believe in God,or that the baptists or hindus have it right but don't force that belief on their 16 and 17yo sons that were raised in the church and continue to allow them to 'stay the course'.
A lot of parents of converts wouldn't be accepted now for a variety of reasons.If I were 16 and my 'straight' parents have been living together,unmarried,since 1974 I could join the church with their consent.They couldn't however join the church themselves unless they got married,[and quit smoking,drinking,etc].They could however come to church with me if they desired and their lifestyle would have no bearing upon my status or advancement within the church.I could live with them until I went on a mission,I wouldn't have an obligation to renounce their lifestyle of 'living in sin'.I would be treated as any other young mormon,judged on my actions, not my parents.
Until last week a 16yo living with his lesbian non-member mom and her girlfriend would have been treated the same way.....now they won't....how does this make sense???
I still don't understand how they are going to handle things when Dad leaves Mom for Steve but Mom is still a member of the church??They are going to tell the mother of an 8yo that her son can't be baptized for ten more years even though hes still attending church with her every sunday because her husband left her for another man while it would have no impact on the kid if dad left mom for another woman?
Church leaders made some statement about doing this so the kids can mature and consider the impact that gay relationships have on 'family temple sealings',which are important to the church, but plenty of other things impact that too.If your dad leaves your mom for the girl next door or the boy next door or joins the church of scientology that ceremony isn't going to happen and only one of them impacts your baptism,ability to go on a mission,etc.
Agreed. Too; my Gay "Mormon" friend, he had 8 children with a Mormon lady and, if ANY were under 18 years old when he "came out", they IMHO STILL have the RIGHT to be Mormon and, if the church says they're "dirty" over something they had nothing to do with, then that church needs to be punished and punished HARD.
It is not about being 'smart'. They do not want to trade their views, values and desire to honor their god for new members.
I am obviously not a Mormon, but I respect their stance. Either you appease people, or you honor god, and they have chosen correctly to honor god by obeying his commands.
I seem to recall a fellow saying "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them" - Jewish carpenter with long hair, what was that name again?
Agreed. Too; my Gay "Mormon" friend, he had 8 children with a Mormon lady and, if ANY were under 18 years old when he "came out", they IMHO STILL have the RIGHT to be Mormon
I agree, that's how it should be. As a matter of fact, unless they are living with their dad and his current partner, they probably would be.
Quote:
and, if the church says they're "dirty" over something they had nothing to do with, then that church needs to be punished and punished HARD.
If honesty matters here, you really can't claim that the Church said something (i.e. "they're dirty") that it didn't really say at all. I'm a Mormon and I'm having a hard time with this new ruling. But let's stick to the facts, okay? While this new policy is definitely discriminating against innocent children, it's not because they are believed to be "dirty." I'll be the first to say that I don't find this decision to be a very "Christian" one. It actually reminds me a lot of how the Catholic Church used to refuse to bury unbaptized children who died in the Christian cemetery. Maybe when the Mormon Church has been around as long as a Catholic Church has, it will have made a few policy changes. I certainly hope so.
Sometimes a teenager from a non-member family will desire to join the church and if their parents give permission they are allowed.Some parents who aren't religious don't object if their children are.Sometimes a parent in the church will decide that they no longer believe in God,or that the baptists or hindus have it right but don't force that belief on their 16 and 17yo sons that were raised in the church and continue to allow them to 'stay the course'.
A lot of parents of converts wouldn't be accepted now for a variety of reasons.If I were 16 and my 'straight' parents have been living together,unmarried,since 1974 I could join the church with their consent.They couldn't however join the church themselves unless they got married,[and quit smoking,drinking,etc].They could however come to church with me if they desired and their lifestyle would have no bearing upon my status or advancement within the church.I could live with them until I went on a mission,I wouldn't have an obligation to renounce their lifestyle of 'living in sin'.I would be treated as any other young mormon,judged on my actions, not my parents.
Until last week a 16yo living with his lesbian non-member mom and her girlfriend would have been treated the same way.....now they won't....how does this make sense???
I still don't understand how they are going to handle things when Dad leaves Mom for Steve but Mom is still a member of the church??They are going to tell the mother of an 8yo that her son can't be baptized for ten more years even though hes still attending church with her every sunday because her husband left her for another man while it would have no impact on the kid if dad left mom for another woman?
Church leaders made some statement about doing this so the kids can mature and consider the impact that gay relationships have on 'family temple sealings',which are important to the church, but plenty of other things impact that too.If your dad leaves your mom for the girl next door or the boy next door or joins the church of scientology that ceremony isn't going to happen and only one of them impacts your baptism,ability to go on a mission,etc.
I agree, Bob. It looks to me as if there were a lot of different scenarios that weren't considered very carefully. It will be interesting to see how this all works out. I hope that enough problems end up arising that the Church's leadership will be forced to take a closer look at the policy and maybe implement some changes. I feel really bad about this decision.
Agreed. Too; my Gay "Mormon" friend, he had 8 children with a Mormon lady and, if ANY were under 18 years old when he "came out", they IMHO STILL have the RIGHT to be Mormon and, if the church says they're "dirty" over something they had nothing to do with, then that church needs to be punished and punished HARD.
Well the church isn't really saying that they are 'dirty' but the policy doesn't make much sense.The church doesn't believe in the concept of 'original sin',we are judged for our sins not those of Adam and Eve...but apparently now we can be punished for the sins of Adam and Steve...if your dad is either Adam or Steve.The church won't baptize you if you reside with your two atheist 'dads' but they will still baptize the children of hetrosexual atheists,hindus,scientologists,etc and the children of heterosexual murderers,rapists,adulterers,bank robbers,etc.
I agree, Bob. It looks to me as if there were a lot of different scenarios that weren't considered very carefully. It will be interesting to see how this all works out. I hope that enough problems end up arising that the Church's leadership will be forced to take a closer look at the policy and maybe implement some changes. I feel really bad about this decision.
I've just been shaking my head since last night.I thought perhaps the news article was distorted but I listened to a video of Elder Christofferson explaining the situation today and read the changes to the manual that were leaked online and i'm still shaking my head.
Much of what was said regarding issues the children of gay couples would face also translate to any young convert to the church.A 17 yo convert with atheist or methodist parents aren't going to be attending any 'sealing ceremony' with them either.Are we going to stop baptizing anyone under 18 who doesn't have two active temple worthy parents??It seems pretty clear from my reading that even an 18+ child living with a parent in a gay relationship would be forced to move out of their parents home and get permission from SLC to get baptized while a 17yo living with his single mom and her boyfriend would still only need permission from his mom.
Should they stop baptizing any converts under 18?If i'm 25,in med school, and living with my parents,who both work at an abortion clinic,should I have to move out and get permission from SLC to get baptized??During the baptismal interview should they add questions about whether my mom ever had an abortion or if my dad ever commited a serious crime?
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The church won't baptize you if you reside with your two atheist 'dads' but they will still baptize the children of hetrosexual atheists,hindus,scientologists,etc and the children of heterosexual murderers,rapists,adulterers,bank robbers,etc. 
