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Old 11-19-2015, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,234,855 times
Reputation: 35920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynternight View Post
Obama's EHR initiative is designed to better communication between health care providers so we can get as real time data collection as possible and avoid issues like poly-pharmacy. It is not, as the conspiracy theorists think something to be used as a punitive measure.

As far as the VA goes, when I check in a patient I have a list of questions I have to ask them based on an algorithm, themselves generated by a variety of things: age of the vet, medical history, etc. The vaccination questions are based on the CDC recommended schedule (yearly flu vaccine, pneumonia vaccine every five years, tetanus every 10, shingles over 65, etc. ). I make the offer and the vet is free to say yay or nay. If they refuse I document the refusal and move on to the next questions. I have no power to compel but I do try and get those with young children or who work with kids to at least get the TDAP (Tetanus, Diptheris, and Pertussis) due to the state having consecutive years of Pertussis (whooping cough) outbreaks as it can be fatal in children. If they continue to refuse I document the refusal and move on. There's no compulsion or penalty for refusal.
Thank you for giving us a behind the scenes look at the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RestArea View Post
As a vet, I am appalled at the ass-hats on here trying to politicize the routine vaccinations of vets under VA care. This is an outrage. Vets do not deserve to be made into your damn political footballs. There is nothing going on except the providing of routine vaccinations to eligible vets.

Crawl out from under your damn tinfoil hats and leave the vets alone.
Thank you for saying that!

 
Old 11-19-2015, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,234,855 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
The problem is that their names will be in a database for refusal; which is working it's way to include the entire adult population. Can they say to no that they do not want their vaccination status to be included in any database?
Where do you see that in the law? Not some anti-vax rag's report on the law, but in the law itself? It's a good thing to document refusal, and it's not punitive. As Wynternight said, you document it and move on. It shows you have offered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Iraq/Afgan War Vets can certainly have been born after 1980. Vets are not just old people. Many/most probably had chicken pox and would not be going to their pediatricians any longer to "prove" they had the disease. Oh, as the CDC says, it cannot HURT to get the vax even if you had the disease and don't want to jump through hoops proving that you did, whether a Vet or not.
Yes, born before 1980 means >35 years old now. However, don't they all get a lot of immunizations at enlistment? Doesn't the military keep records of this, if not in a registry, on paper somewhere? Do note that a history of chickenpox verified by a health care provider is acceptable in lieu of vaccine, also a titer.

Do note the a purpose of a registry is to deal with the bold.
 
Old 11-19-2015, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,420 posts, read 10,774,804 times
Reputation: 7800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic View Post
"Sec. 101 of Senate Bill 1203, named the 21st Century Veterans Benefits Delivery Act, states that the Department of Veterans Affairs will be tasked with the mandate to “ensure that veterans receiving medical services under chapter 17 of title 38, United States Code, receive each immunization on the recommended adult immunization schedule at the time such immunization is indicated on that schedule.”

US Senate Passes Bill Approving Mandatory Vaccinations for Veterans
They can shove it up this veterans posterior orifice.
 
Old 11-19-2015, 09:47 AM
 
13,279 posts, read 7,810,210 times
Reputation: 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandraMoore66 View Post
This is a sad and awful statement. Sad that they are defending your rights to say this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW_qMLnbRJw
 
Old 11-19-2015, 10:46 AM
 
10,181 posts, read 6,236,818 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Where do you see that in the law? Not some anti-vax rag's report on the law, but in the law itself? It's a good thing to document refusal, and it's not punitive. As Wynternight said, you document it and move on. It shows you have offered.



Yes, born before 1980 means >35 years old now. However, don't they all get a lot of immunizations at enlistment? Doesn't the military keep records of this, if not in a registry, on paper somewhere? Do note that a history of chickenpox verified by a health care provider is acceptable in lieu of vaccine, also a titer.

Do note the a purpose of a registry is to deal with the bold.
I said born AFTER 1980 could be a Vet today. Several of my daughter's HS friends, born in 1984, are Iraq VETS today because they enlisted right after graduation. They are under 35 years old. I know for a fact that at least one had chicken pox as a 6 year old in 1990 which was the same time my daughter had it. Ooops, so much for that "born AFTER 1980" CDC rule.

I am sure the VA has records of their vaccinations when they went into the service, BUT their records would not be in the VA database if they had medical treatment by a private practice AFTER discharge. National Adult Database in the future for cross referencing?
 
Old 11-19-2015, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,234,855 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I said born AFTER 1980 could be a Vet today. Several of my daughter's HS friends, born in 1984, are Iraq VETS today because they enlisted right after graduation. They are under 35 years old. I know for a fact that at least one had chicken pox as a 6 year old in 1990 which was the same time my daughter had it. Ooops, so much for that "born AFTER 1980" CDC rule.

I am sure the VA has records of their vaccinations when they went into the service, BUT their records would not be in the VA database if they had medical treatment by a private practice AFTER discharge. National Adult Database in the future for cross referencing?
Those people born before 1980, which yes, I agreed with you are now >35 years old, and though I didn't specifically state it thought I made it clear yes, they could be vets.

You don't understand the CDC rule. People born in the US before 1980 are automatically presumed to be immune to chickenpox. Reason? Everyone got it pre-vaccine, and they would have been 15 years of age or older by the time the vaccine came out in 1995. Does that mean every single one of them had chickenpox by then? No. We know from experience that there are a few outliers who never got it as children, but still, statistically about 100% of people did get it. Does that mean that no one born after 1980 got chickenpox naturally? Of course not! It was usually contracted by the age of 12. Vaccine came out in 1995, meaning people born in 1983 or earlier are very likely to have had it, plus a large contingency of those born 1990 or earlier. My own two kids plus numerous neighbor kids, school classmates, kids of friends, etc born in the later 80s had chickenpox.
Chickenpox

Do note that history of disease confirmed by health care provider is a legitimate exemption to the chickenpox requirement, regardless of birth year!

There is no national database regardless of what any conspiracy theorist tells you. State registries are voluntary, both for the medical practice and for the patients in those practices that participate. More offices are switching to electronic health records, one selling point of which was that any health care provider can access your record from any other HCP. In practice, this has not worked. None of the systems "talk" to each other, everything is password protected, etc.
 
Old 11-19-2015, 12:53 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 6,236,818 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic View Post
"Sec. 101 of Senate Bill 1203, named the 21st Century Veterans Benefits Delivery Act, states that the Department of Veterans Affairs will be tasked with the mandate to “ensure that veterans receiving medical services under chapter 17 of title 38, United States Code, receive each immunization on the recommended adult immunization schedule at the time such immunization is indicated on that schedule.”

US Senate Passes Bill Approving Mandatory Vaccinations for Veterans
"ensure that veterans, etc., receive each immunization, etc." What is the definition of ensure? According to Webster "ensure" means to make sure or certain. So this legislation is to MAKE SURE/CERTAIN that Vets receive all vaccinations. It does not say make sure they are OFFERED all vaccinations but they "make sure/certain RECEIVE all vaccinations. That is in direct conflict with the right of adult private citizens, which all Vets now are, to refuse medical treatment, including vaccinations. One may question the wording, but one does need to understand the dictionary definitions and how this can be legally used to MANDATE Vets vaccinations.

Posters can dismiss me as anti vaxxer but my husband is a Nam Vet who is right now trying to prove his medical problems to the VA based on his exposure to Agent Orange. Would YOU rather catch the Flu without a vaccination or Parkinson's from Agent Orange exposure? Nightmare. Yet, they want to mandate flu shots, etc., for all Vets? Come on, set your PRIORITIES in the right place, people, including SENATORS in "their community".

I have not told my husband of this legislation but I am sure he would be throughly p'od about it giving his real medical issues and the run around with the VA.

Apparently, I am not the only person to question the wording in this legislation:

http://challengingtherhetoric.blogsp...dates-and.html
 
Old 11-19-2015, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,624 posts, read 19,049,191 times
Reputation: 21733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I see nothing in it that veterans will be required to get the immunizations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
How anyone reads "improved access" as "mandatory" is totally beyond me.
Apparently, you didn't look very hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
"ensure that veterans, etc., receive each immunization, etc." What is the definition of ensure? According to Webster "ensure" means to make sure or certain. So this legislation is to MAKE SURE/CERTAIN that Vets receive all vaccinations. It does not say make sure they are OFFERED all vaccinations but they "make sure/certain RECEIVE all vaccinations. That is in direct conflict with the right of adult private citizens, which all Vets now are, to refuse medical treatment, including vaccinations. One may question the wording, but one does need to understand the dictionary definitions and how this can be legally used to MANDATE Vets vaccinations.
That's what it says.

It's interesting that the mentally ill have the right to refuse medical treatment, but the non-mentally ill do not.
 
Old 11-19-2015, 06:28 PM
 
13,279 posts, read 7,810,210 times
Reputation: 2138
Hey, now wait just a minute.

Veterans fought for YOUR freedom, not THEIRS.
 
Old 11-19-2015, 06:40 PM
 
3,271 posts, read 2,172,459 times
Reputation: 2458
I'm veteran myself and I have to admit that there are a lot of veterans that take advantage of the system. Air Force employees that never worked outside a day in their life in particular tend to have the highest disability ratings.

A lot of people today have a limited moral compass. Veterans are not immune to stealing what amounts to be a perpetuity with a present value sometimes worth over $500,000.

I see it all the time. You know who you are, and you know that you're stealing, but you justify it to yourselves.

Fortunately, I've always been health conscious and realized the benefits of strength training early on, so I could protect my body from acute injuries that may arise in the job I had in the military which often involved lifting heavy weight and being exposed to numerous chemicals.

Have I been injured? Yes, but I also did research and found out alternative methods that could heal tendon and ligament injuries as if they were never injured, so I could not bring it upon myself after seeing veterans with missing limbs to take advantage of the system.

I can't speak for everyone else though. They know who they are.

With that said, I don't think it's right for the government to force people to get vaccinated.

Last edited by Jobster; 11-19-2015 at 06:49 PM..
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