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You locals should realize that Chicago is not a Row-Home city. You want a Row-Home city visit Philadelphia. Visit old small cities throughout the East. This living is not to blame in itself whatsoever for crime and a criminal element develop. For most it did not. Small cities and towns do not have the population for organized crime to gain a large stronghold on it.
Have some seen how Old London say was..... such a strict Class-system of a poor, servant class and the rich. petty crime and worst was rampent in its urban slums the poorer lived in unsanitary conditions.
How about Old NYC. Perhaps the move Gangs of NYC of old NYC being filled with small gangs of thieves as a way of life. Again, this was not exactly something that every small city would have.
Large cities had the numbers to develop this organized criminal element. Most time its started in the ethnic neighborhoods of those seen as a lowest class of that era. Why for Chicago .... The Irish and Italian mafia etc.... were early to develop organized crime rings in their neighborhoods. African-Americans also developed theirs.
The evolution of crime is clear in Chicago's history vs small cities across IL. Size breeds more division and rich vs poor, segregated populations as the lowest classes for each era clearly happened. No one ethnic group had all the gangs vs the rest. Eventually, all the European ethnic neighborhoods decimated and inter-marriage among groups and WW2 had less need for neighborhoods to be kept by White Ethnicity separated.
One group that remained segregated were though African-Americans. The Pervasive criminal element never had a chance to be changed or segregated by one group no longer desired as a option. Once a neighborhood changed to all African-American it had decades to remain in distress and its organized to small hood rat crime stayed in place and each generation sadly inherited the same pattern.
Large cities and small cities are not comparable to each other over long histories to say... urbanity creates crime or one ethnic group is prone or responsible for it. Circumstances and how a neighborhood evolves and changes plays key rolls in one group developing a long term hold on it and crime.
There is a reason that by me small cities that have a poorer big city element moving in... bring a bit different culture and mind-set to work-ethnic sometimes and of course drug-culture that in itself can be perverse. Still what did not come with them were the common GANG mentality and take over areas and schools even. Just not enough from one city or gang or same hood they came from and of course.... most reasons they moved out of the large city was that evil of gangs and crime cycle and a safer from it life for their children.
NoHyping, thank you for sharing. You bring a lot of great points to the table!
In this country, SOME group was always at the bottom of the ladder until another group comes into the picture. THAT is a very sad mentality that many human beings have not been able to truly evolve from. And therefore, over a mere 100 YEARS ago, the Irish were the "dirty" ones. You will be able to find old signs of the "Irish need not apply" in certain establishments. And a few decades later, EVERYONE is Irish on St. Patty's Day! Imagine that!!!
And so after the Irish became more established, they were still bad UNTIL those dirty Italians started immigrating! And then those backwards Polish, and then those dirty/lazy/lawbreaking (fill in the next group)...
And so the previous mentioned groups finally consolidated when people of really dark skin show up, and so now those Irish, Italian and Polish band together as the WHITE group and then they band against the non-WHITE group!!
So now if us humans could take that ability to consolidate and incorporate EVERYONE as a HUMAN RACE, and STOP looking at our differences, we could stop these wars and discrimination and everything else that is tearing us apart.
In this country, SOME group was always at the bottom of the ladder until another group comes into the picture. THAT is a very sad mentality that many human beings have not been able to truly evolve from. And therefore, over a mere 100 YEARS ago, the Irish were the "dirty" ones. You will be able to find old signs of the "Irish need not apply" in certain establishments. And a few decades later, EVERYONE is Irish on St. Patty's Day! Imagine that!!!
Went from being scapegoated for burning down the city, to running the city in just 50 years. That's some upward mobility.
curiousoutsider, my emotions are almost ALWAYS set aside
I am an advocate for positive reinforcement for youth and healthy esteem-building; and I am an advocate for taking ownership/responsibility.
It is important for any person to be raised to believe they are worthy and valuable. If a person is raised the opposite, I understand why they are more likely to abuse their bodies via prostitution, drug use, etc. And so if you have an area with more people like THAT, you have an area to have crime brew!
That is why for the last 19 years, I've taught respect and self-control via martial arts classes. That is MY own contribution to the community. I am not one to complain about something but not DO anything about it.
And people have to EXPECT more for themselves. Otherwise, jail and possibly death is not a deterrent. I've worked in social work for 25 years, so I have an idea on how it works.
I bought into that whole Latino gang culture in my younger days. I was almost killed at age 19. So the lightbulb began to get brighter then, and I turned things around. EVERYONE has a CHOICE!
In my work we are often challenged with fixing problems. We talk about root cause and paths to solution. If we could approach racism that same way we would have a much better shot at fixing it. Setting aside the emotion for a minute, several other groups have faced pretty harsh discrimination. The Jewish community was in a similar position to the African American community just a few generations ago. We should look at the Jewish, and Irish situation and see what is different about those groups that allowed them to progress and see if it can be applied to the current situation with African Americans. Maybe it's just because they have lighter skin and blend in better, or maybe there are other factors like the percentage of single parent households.
If the only solution to racism is for the minority to become white, then there is no solution for Black people.
But the bigger issue is telling minorities to solve the problem of racism by "doing what the Irish and Jewish did." Instead of telling white people to stop their crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousoutsider
Right now racism has become a talking point for a marketing strategy for the Democratic party, so we are not making things better.
You start by saying "let's solve the problem of racism," but then vilify the political party that actually talks about and tries to do something about racism...
Looking at how the problem was overcome by other groups is just basic root cause analysis and problem solving.
They talk about it because they have figured out it gets votes. Telling Black people they are victims and white people that they should be ashamed is not working towards a solution, it's pandering. If it were a solution why is it the big cities run by the politicians who most "talk about it" are where the most violence and least opportunities take place for minorities?
You also cannot factor in totally different eras. Even then African-Americans though very segregated into areas they were allowed to live.... even in our major cities mid-size or large even small. They also had strong family ties and husband/wife households far more then also. Jobs in the inner city were also more plentiful even if two-tiered wages sometimes.
The era the Irish and Italians were the lower-class especially as Catholics. Had them the ability to inter-marry into any other ethnicity much more easily and they certainly did. This is totally different the being of totally different races at least in appearance that was not merely hair and eye color either.
Just saying this cause you should realize going back to the early 20th century and 1960s onward are totally different in environment, changing morals, strict segregation vs a much weaker one mostly by wealth then wanting Italians in their own neighborhoods and Italians vs the English and those already a couple generations American born and Protestant vs Catholic back-in-the-day was strong.
Just some food for thought also. There was NOTHING like Jim Crow Laws against the Irish and Italians.... can you imagine you had ONLY the choice of one side of town and riding the back of the bus only, own water fountain to use or else ect. The Jews had a bit of that perhaps more. Still they could blend in much better and intermarry if a hiding ones affiliation by not being a Practicing Jew and even a name-change and moving could have you totally hide that past. Skin-Color was not something you could change.
I watch recently a 1960 movie on YouTube Titled I believe - I passed for White. It had a women of mixed race where most of here family carried the Black color skin, hair and did not mean a think if they were 1/2 or 1/4 White etc. The Lead Actress looked totally White as as genes mix one can have a White child without even common hair of most White people.
She chose to move cross country to LA and pass for White. Ended up marrying and into a prominent Family never revealing the truth to any but a best friend. Anyway, the story has her issue with keeping it hid and a HUGE one of paranoia and fear when she became Pregnant knowing there was a good chance the Child would come out Black.
I heard plenty of stories how my small hometown was back-in -the day. The Italian and Irish side of town the Polish/Eastern European and Russian/Ukrainian side basically Catholic and the English, German Northern European side. who were Protestant.
Basically, intermarriage especially among Catholics became common first. Then intermarriage in general happened and so called certain sides of town became less and less. Another aspect was as Catholics were able to afford even newer homes outside the city.... basically 60s suburban-like areas. The Farms were mostly Protestants. Land sold for new housing mean more Catholics not liked. Worst was when land sought for a Catholic Church..... seemed the story goes no one would sell for a church. Eventually of course it happened. Just how things were we cannot understand today....a least if young.
We cannot merely say these older groups who came out of being more in poor areas and looked down upon.... can be compared to a Race that had many more obsticles and a severe segregation that no intermarriage was changing nor could one hide their Race to attempt it.
TOO MANY fall prey to the POLITICAL DEMONIZING fully today and does not matter what past generations overcame if White really. We cannot just say others did so could you on the same level of ability. If one believes they had equal footing?? I suggest read up on history a bit.
The worst is generations of being segregated and the criminal gang mentality feeds and perverts each new generation. That is the cycle totally that if eliminated so much could begin to change. Sadly, neither side can get together for such a task but demonizing and blame and put Rural vs City even with the Racial Card.
There are plenty of links on even Chicago's history of Segregation.... even lil ole Gary IN. The Chicago Historical Society has a lot of that also even online.
As you probably already know....I believe he's referring to George Floyd. That's been a touchy political topic.
No idea why the murder of George Floyd is a "touchy political issue." He was murdered by someone entrusted with the safety of the populace, justice was meted out (thanks to a video taken by a young girl). There's no political issue there. Is there a politician taking the side of the murderer?
So who are the "true African American heroes" that he feels deserves statues?
I can't read his mind, so I'm not sure. Guessing he is referring to other African Americans who may not have a criminal past (and I'm in no way denigrating George Floyd or stating my opinion....just making a logical assumption of his opinion based on his post).
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