For guns AND gun control (high school, states, federal, supporters)
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I think you assumed. The very inclusion of the word some would implicate discontinuity. I have no problem with gun owners. I just think there needs to be more and tougher regulations. Anecdotally, many of my gun owning friends tell me I'm wrong not to own a firearm. That I have a duty to be armed. Seems like a quandary.
I can't think of any Gun owner who would try and push gun ownership on some one who did not choose to own one. I find it hard to believe that any gun owner would, so sorry if I disbelieve that. WE don't care if you own guns or don't. Why would we. Doesn't make sense to care. When you attach the "Its your Duty" thingy, that's really off the deep end. There is NO WAY "Many" of your friends would say such a thing. Way too far out of making sense. Sorry.
The rule is that what Conservatives desire, is BAD for the country as a whole. Republicans want to cling to their guns because of a backwards view of the 2nd Amendment, and of course this is absolutely wrong in a post-Bush world, made more dangerous by inept Republican policies here and abroad.
ALL guns should be banned and all should be confiscated. Severe penalties for violators. The NRA must take the wrong side of this argument for self-preservation.
I was going to try to address every point in your post, but I'm going to reduce it to just one.
No you're not pro-gun, you are pro you owning a gun. Much like people who are for gun control not actually being anti-gun, they're really pro-gun for the police, government and military, just anti-gun for everyone else. If they were anti-gun they'd be for disarming at least the police and government.
If you don't want people having guns, then through due process suspend their rights. If you permit government to suspend a right without due process then you might just discover that it's your rights being suspended without your due process.
If we permit a government to suspend the right to keep and bear arms without due process, do you think the government will not consider that the right to being secure in your home and with your possessions can be suspended for some perceived or potential transgression? What about the right to free speech, people and agitate and cause political backlashes? The right to non-self-incrimination, and due process and legal representation they all get in the way of making convictions? The right to freedom of religion, multiple religions causes frictions that can be violent, if we restrict it to either zero or one, then it's far less risk too.
Make no mistake, just like in the immortal words of Judge Dredd everyone's a perp, or a potential perp, you, me, your wife, kids, mother, friends, neighbors. Give the government the permission to restrict a right on suspicion of some future event, and you'll discover you've given the government the permission to restrict all rights on suspicion of all future events, against all potential transgressors, and that group includes you.
They do not have to bend"They, by definition, CANNOT BEND in their defense of the 2nd amendment '
They lie! I was a member but i read the newsletters and they lie. WAYNE IS A BALD FACE LIAR and twists the truth.
Gun owners that belong to the NRA don't want them to bend an inch. I know I don't. All these folks who "used" to belong to the NRA, and now "Badmouth" it should not have been members anyway, and most of us are glad they quit. We don't need hem. Who wants anti-gunners in a Gun Rights Organization....
Your power over this thread scares me!
I sense you have a lot of emotion invested in this subject.
I am A Patriotic American and i don't want innocent people getting shot up. Are you for closing loopholes
that allow Feds to shirk their duties and allow people to smuggle guns as noted below
Instead, prosecutors rely primarily on laws that prohibit making false statements in connection with the purchase of a firearm. These are “paperwork†violations with penalties too low to be effective law enforcement tools. The result is that none of our laws are directly focused on preventing someone from one state from driving to another state with stricter gun laws, parking their car in a parking lot, and selling hundreds of firearms out of their trunk.
I am a Patriotic American and I don't want innocent people to have to fight for their Constitutional rights, while other "Patriotic" Americans try to give them away...
The government already has tons of laws about guns, so that train has already left the station. We're talking about closing loopholes that kill people. Unless you're a felon, mental patient, or something else you need to hide, I don't see what the problem is.
The not-giving-an-inch arguments are pure childishness.
Your not required to see what the problem is. The Gun Owner will decide what Laws they choose to obey.
Not giving an inch, still leaves room for giving. I say don't give anything. Zero.
Almost every Gun Law we have today, is not enforceable, unless stumbled upon by accident or in the commission of a crime. A Law is only as good as the times its obeyed, and only very few will obey a Law they think is unjustified, in their own minds. If you doubt that, next time your Driving along at the speed limit, see how many times your passed. NO serious Gun Owner I know, cares what all these ignorant new Laws are, that Ban certain features on Guns, concocted by some States. They aren't enforceable anyway, and too goofy to take seriously.
You said, " We're talking about closing loopholes that kill people." What kind of nonsense is that? That "Loophole" Already has the biggest "Plug" you could ever put in it. Its called the LAW we have always had against Murder. You know the one, right? The one you could get that "Injection" for. If folks choose to ignore that one, with the chance of losing their lives over, what in the World would make you think that your loophole plug would make them change their minds? That's Comedy.
Almost every Gun Law we have today, is not enforceable, unless stumbled upon by accident or in the commission of a crime. A Law is only as good as the times its obeyed, and only very few will obey a Law they think is unjustified, in their own minds. If you doubt that, next time your Driving along at the speed limit, see how many times your passed. NO serious Gun Owner I know, cares what all these ignorant new Laws are, that Ban certain features on Guns, concocted by some States. They aren't enforceable anyway, and too goofy to take seriously.
Got it. You and your cronies are scofflaws who don't obey gun laws. Thanks for sharing.
I'm pro-gun. I have several of them and have concealed carry permits in three states. To get my CCW permits, I had to undergo extensive background checks as well as attend compulsory training classes.
However, I absolutely detest the NRA's knee-jerk policy of lobbying against any and all form of gun control. It's idiotic to say that mental patients and people on government no-fly lists should still have access to weapons. The excuse that such laws violate the rights of these people doesn't wash. If the gov doesn't want them to fly, I sure as hell don't want them around me toting guns. If they're on this lists erroneously, that's their problem to get fixed.
How the hell can you say you need guns to protect yourself when you support EVERYONEs right to guns regardless if they're mental cases, felons, immigrants on federal watch lists.
I'm armed and squeaky clean. If you're not squeaky clean as well, you get no sympathy from me if you can't get a gun.
Wake-up fellow gun owners. You're being duped by the NRA who is compromising YOUR safety.
A few things:
1) The end goal is a gun ban. That is why so many gun control advocates and politicians always cite gun bans (or near bans) in other countries as success stories and never any policy that has worked in the US. I never hear about the massive drops in homicide in Chicago or any other city with a gun ban. But they always use Australia as an example.
And the idea that gun ban in Australia has been successful is rather dubious:
Oh, look. The American homicide rate dropped by almost 40% during the exact same period. A period in which both gun ownership increased and laws regarding them expired or repealed or struck down by the courts.
"Uh, like statistics don't tell the whole story..."
2) Until the 1980s the NRA was actually quite accommodating towards some gun control laws. After after years of increasing restrictions on firearms during a period when the homicide rate was increasing every year; it became more and more apparent that guns themselves have little effect on the murder rate.
3)
a) The No-Fly List is complete horses--t. It is secret, it only takes a recommendation to get put on it, and there is no recourse to get yourself removed. It is a mockery of due process. You might even call it "illiberal".
b) The No-Fly List would have done f--k all in this case. One of the shooters was an American citizen and an employee of the county government (which I am told that government employees are the only people who we can trust with guns) and the other was cleared by the Department of Homeland Security (which that wonderful department is one again showing how useful it is). Neither were apparently on the No-Fly List.
I'm also disgusted by that All or None approach to gun control. It's mind blowing that you can be on the No Fly List and still purchase a high capacity gun, let alone any gun at all. I've seen reports that at least 100 NFL (not football) people have already purchased guns. It's as nonsensical as the All or None view Liberals have of the refugees or immigrants.
.......
We have a thing called "due process of law" in this country which essentially says that if the government is going to remove your rights, they charge you, take you to court, convict you, and then remove your rights.
Being on the no fly list and then being prohibited from buying guns is removing one's rights without due process of law. It is against the 14th Amendment.
There are already bills in congress to support this, but the Republican beneficiaries of IRA kickbacks are doing their best to block them. The are ways to do the checks without violating existing HIPAA laws, as anybody with a modicum of critical thinking skills can imagine. This will happen, it's just a matter of time.
LOL!!! They can just buy them at garage sales with no background checks which YOU GUYS are defending. You can't have it both ways, bucko!
Republican Dilemma: Guns for Immigrants.
I think you care MOE aout political sides then you do about the purpose of this hread.
A simple question for you. What was the vote in Congress by each party for Obama's "new" Assault Weapon bill?
You MIGHT want to loo it up.
You wouldn't make such asinine statements about the repub part being the ONLY ones AGAINST such measures.
And calling anybody you DON'T agree with insulting names will NEVER get you ANY credibility.
If you CANNOT discuss an issue WITHOUT the juvenile name calling, maybe you should stay on the social forums where all the other rude immature people go.
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Strict gun control is necessary
