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Old 12-05-2015, 08:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
how do you know there are no voices out there? if you listen you will hear. most of these countries have no freedom of speech and yet there are voices that rise in protest and are brutally put down. The US supports and has historically supported these same governments and tyrants.
the christian right in the US does not believe in LGBT rights or women's reproductive rights or minority rights and they attack planned parenthood centers, schools and churches.
how does it matters what "voices" say? look at how muslims live in the US. they are small business owners, workers, doctors, scientists, lawyers, entertainers, parents who want good schools for their children who take care of their elders, do charitable work - all good american values. they may even be your neighbors. why should they answer for ISIS?
Point me to the voices that you claim are out there. I am not talking about the typical Muslim rhetoric "We as Muslims reject ISIS, and it does not represent Islam", rather what I typed in my previous post.

 
Old 12-05-2015, 09:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golimar View Post
Point me to the voices that you claim are out there. I am not talking about the typical Muslim rhetoric "We as Muslims reject ISIS, and it does not represent Islam", rather what I typed in my previous post.
why not? why is that not enough?
 
Old 12-05-2015, 09:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
why not? why is that not enough?
because it is meaningless, it does not put a counter narrative, it just says that is not the true Islam, which actually is not true.

You may want to listen to some talks by a British Muslim; Maajid Nawaz, and you will understand the difference.

Here is just one of them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oPz9E559To
 
Old 12-05-2015, 09:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golimar View Post
because it is meaningless, it does not put a counter narrative, it just says that is not the true Islam, which actually is not true.

You may want to listen to some talks by a British Muslim; Maajid Nawaz, and you will understand the difference.

Here is just one of them.
so they have to express themselves that way YOU dictate. How do you know what is true islam? even muslims do not agree who is a true muslim. muslims living in this country are americans first.
 
Old 12-05-2015, 09:28 PM
 
4,095 posts, read 2,564,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
so they have to express themselves that way YOU dictate. How do you know what is true islam? even muslims do not agree who is a true muslim. muslims living in this country are americans first.
Violent jihad, martyrdom, treating Infidels as second-class citizens.....is Islam as agreed by Muslim scholars.

A new counter narrative is needed which rejects these values.
 
Old 12-05-2015, 09:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golimar View Post
Violent jihad, martyrdom, treating Infidels as second-class citizens.....is Islam as agreed by Muslim scholars.

A new counter narrative is needed which rejects these values.
needed by whom? there are many muslims who live peacefully in secular democracies around the world. every religion has its blood thirsty, hateful, racist, women-hating, practitioners and texts that support murderous and violent haters. islam is not alone in this. american muslims are americans first.
 
Old 12-05-2015, 09:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
needed by whom? there are many muslims who live peacefully in secular democracies around the world. every religion has its blood thirsty, hateful, racist, women-hating, practitioners and texts that support murderous and violent haters. islam is not alone in this. american muslims are americans first.
Obviously you have no clue about how Muslims are behaving in Europe.

Why are there multiple Anti-Islam groups in Australia, when there are more Buddhists living in Australia?
 
Old 12-05-2015, 09:40 PM
 
32,060 posts, read 15,055,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
so they have to express themselves that way YOU dictate. How do you know what is true islam? even muslims do not agree who is a true muslim. muslims living in this country are americans first.
What? What are you talking about. Muslims believe in the Quran, just as Jews believe in the Torah and Catholics....the Bible. You can be an American but still have your faith. The Quran doesn't teach to kill non believers. It's the extremists who have taken it on themselves to do this.
 
Old 12-05-2015, 09:44 PM
 
4,095 posts, read 2,564,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
What? What are you talking about. Muslims believe in the Quran, just as Jews believe in the Torah and Catholics....the Bible. You can be an American but still have your faith. The Quran doesn't teach to kill non believers. It's the extremists who have taken it on themselves to do this.
The Quran absolutely teaches to kill the Unbeliever.

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the extorition tax (Jizya) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." - Quran 9:29

Muhammad, the founder and role model for Muslims was himself a terrorist.
Sina's Challenge
 
Old 12-05-2015, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Maine
3,536 posts, read 2,857,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
It was a fairly simple statement.

If the premise put forth by the OP that all Muslims must own the acts of a few, then one could make the same suggestion that white people should all answer for the acts of racism committed by whites. The presumption is that most white persons would reject out of hand such a suggestion as they should. Using the same reasoning, it is ridiculous that all Muslims or even a majority bare any responsibility for the acts of a minority. That is contrary to the argument put forth by the OP. Get it?
I think your painting an awfully broad brush with "white" My people "Scots" were treated quite horrendously by the Brits, in fact I'm still waiting for my reparations..



bill
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