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Right in the word...
Luke 23
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
So much for turning the other cheek, doing unto others, the Ten Commandments, and all the other stuff that Christian preachers are always yapping about.
you are focusing on a very small portion of what the bible teaches. turning the other cheek deals with when someone hits you, and jesus never said what to do after you are hit again.
the ten commandments say thou shalt not commit murder, self defense is not murder, and the bible teaches that if someone attacks you with the intent of killing you, you have the right to defend yourself with equal force. thus you can kill if it stops you from being killed.
so perhaps you should study up first before lambasting these clergy who decide to pack heat.
many years ago the assistant pastor at my church was also a highway patrol officer, and on occasion when he had to go to work right after church, we would wear his uniform under his robes, complete with firearm.
I work with a Spanish fellow who carries a gun and acts as security at his church. I don't think people would bring outside arguments to church and its extremely remote that someone would target a church for a shooting but I guess it has happened.
Hey. I've got no issue with that. Violence should ALWAYS be a last resort. But that doesn't mean one shouldn't have the means to fight back against those who wish to do harm against their fellow man, be it a minister, or whatever! Let's face it, there are a lot of sick, and just flat out evil people in the world that absolutely do not value the lives of others! As I said, violence should always be the last resort. However; it is unrealistic to think that we can all sit around and sing kumbaya together.
This is why I walked away from religion years ago. Christians talk about following this peaceful guy named Jesus who preached about turning the other cheek, but in the end that's all it is--talk. Jesus would weep if he could see what's being done in his name--both by his "faithful" followers and those who pretend to carry his message to the masses for Him. He'd be throwing the latter group out of the temple in his day.
When's the last time you heard a minister yapping about those quaint topics? All I seem to hear is how god will make you as rich at them, fighting againts the hordes of gays, lesbians, mexiscans and muslims, or how to launch a counter-offensive in the war against Christmas.
Pretty aggressive stuff from people supposedly trying to emulate "the Prince of Peace".
you are focusing on a very small portion of what the bible teaches. turning the other cheek deals with when someone hits you, and jesus never said what to do after you are hit again.
Really? The Gospels are NOT 'a very small portion' of the Bible to anyone who purports to believe in Jesus Christ, ie, is a "Christian".
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm
the ten commandments say thou shalt not commit murder, self defense is not murder, and the bible teaches that if someone attacks you with the intent of killing you, you have the right to defend yourself with equal force. thus you can kill if it stops you from being killed.
The Ten Commandments pretty clearly say, "you shall not kill". Nowhere does it say "you shall not kill except ..." Virtually all early Christians were pacifists who took the both the commandments and Jesus' words quite literally. It was individual versions of Christianity that decided that self-defense and/or war were exceptions to "don't kill". Some Christian denominations today like the Quakers and Amish still practice pacifism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm
so perhaps you should study up first before lambasting these clergy who decide to pack heat.
I taught religion for a number of years in Catholic schools. Both Testaments. I have "studied up".
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm
many years ago the assistant pastor at my church was also a highway patrol officer, and on occasion when he had to go to work right after church, we would wear his uniform under his robes, complete with firearm.
Your assistant pastor didn't wear his gun under his robes specifically for "protection" but for his job. He wasn't advocating from the pulpit that people resort to violence, either. That's the problem here, sir. People who are supposed to be delivering Jesus' message are corrupting that message from "love one another as I love you" to "get him before he gets you".
you are focusing on a very small portion of what the bible teaches. turning the other cheek deals with when someone hits you, and jesus never said what to do after you are hit again.
So it's your belief that had Jesus expanded a bit further, his next line would have been, "But hey, if he hits you a second time, knock his lights out!"??
You know, it doesn't surprise me to hear that you probably believe that. I suspect most other so-called Christians believe it, too. At least all of the pretend Christians here who are constantly preaching violence and hate instead of Christ's actual message of peace and love. You may think you are following Christ's teachings, but it's obvious that in reality you have no clue what they truly are.
Though I stopped calling myself a Christian years ago, I like Christ's teachings and I try to follow them every day. It's a shame those who profess to be his followers don't do the same.
This is why I walked away from religion years ago. Christians talk about following this peaceful guy named Jesus who preached about turning the other cheek, but in the end that's all it is--talk. Jesus would weep if he could see what's being done in his name--both by his "faithful" followers and those who pretend to carry his message to the masses for Him. He'd be throwing the latter group out of the temple in his day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
Pretty aggressive stuff from people supposedly trying to emulate "the Prince of Peace".
sstudy up some more, because even jesus had his violent moments. remember the money changers in the temple and what jesus did and said to them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
Really? The Gospels are NOT 'a very small portion' of the Bible to anyone who purports to believe in Jesus Christ, ie, is a "Christian".
there are four gospels, and a total of 66(?) books in the entire bible, so yes they are small portion of the bible as a whole.
Quote:
The Ten Commandments pretty clearly say, "you shall not kill". Nowhere does it say "you shall not kill except ..." Virtually all early Christians were pacifists who took the both the commandments and Jesus' words quite literally. It was individual versions of Christianity that decided that self-defense and/or war were exceptions to "don't kill". Some Christian denominations today like the Quakers and Amish still practice pacifism.
the sixth commandment was mistranslated, it should read thou shalt not commit murder.
The final Old Testament passage we examine is in the book of Esther. Here we have a historical example arranged by Divine Providence. In this account, the Jews are under threat of racial violence. The civil authority, King Ahasuerus, grants them legal permission to use lethal force in self-defense: Esther 8:11-12 11 By these letters the king permitted the Jews who were in every city to gather together and protect their lives -- to destroy, kill, and annihilate all the forces of any people or province that would assault them, both little children and women, and to plunder their possessions...
So they have legal sanction to "protect their lives" using ultimate force, much as we do in most parts of this country. They are allowed to "kill and annihilate" in order to "protect their lives." Now, as people under obligation to obey God, not just stay within the civil laws of Ahasuerus, what do the Jews do with this legal freedom? Esther 9:1-5...the Jews themselves overpowered those who hated them. 2 The Jews gathered together in their cities throughout all the provinces of King Ahasuerus to lay hands on those who sought their harm. And no one could withstand them, because fear of them fell upon all people.... 5 Thus the Jews defeated all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, with slaughter and destruction,
We see that given legal sanction to defend their lives with lethal force, they do not choose non-violence. Rather, as it says in verse 11, to "protect their lives", they use the "sword" (verse 5). Here is another example of widespread use of weapons in self-defense—a non-wartime, non-law enforcement scenario.
this is just a sample of what this article talks about.
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