Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think El Nox is saying green_mariner is either downplaying or outright lying? About what? Who can say? Some of these replies are getting more & more irrational. Oh well, lemme move on then.
green_mariner: I never imagined I would be agreeing with anything David Duke had to say but I have to agree with him when he says that the The Battle of Liberty Place or the White League Memorial is a Monument built to celebrate White Pride. After all, it's irrefutable.
Similar to the fact that Slavery is the sine qua non reason for the American Civil War. Without Slavery, there is no War.
If the White League Memorial is built to celebrate White Pride, why would it surprise anyone that White Supremacist groups & leaders would adopt it as a symbol to reflect who they are?
Well, I am only speaking on what I've seen around me. As for David Duke, we have to think about WHY he said what he said. In many cases, people are only honest as a means to support their own agenda. We know what David Duke stands for. He was just doing the dirty that a covert bigot won't do.
Alot of people are not bigots. I can say that with my own experiences. However, there are still bigots out there. Many of them just learn to hide it better. Someone like David Duke is just being a bit more overt with it. He does the dirty for those who want to say certain things, but are afraid to say.
And you are right. As the thread gets longer, the more irrational things have gotten. The facts are laid on the table. The more and more some people try to avoid those facts, the more irrational things get. I think one part of the irrational behavior is fear. Fear of having to admit "this is wrong". In knowing better, one has the responsibility of making a decision. Do we make a change, or stay the same? It is a matter of not wanting to know better.
Another factor is just plain stubbornness. One way to describe it: "Yes, I know it's wrong, and I should do better. But I'm not going to change because that is just who I am, and I don't care what anyone thinks".
we got a vietnam statues at our park in town, honoring those that died in that war, we should take that statue down too, I mean they lost a war, they attack another country for no reason, I mean invaded another country, they killed women and children. so by using the logic of the confederate statues, we need a history cleaning, we need to start burning books too, rewrite history so it favorable. My town under five flags, we need to erase that history too, four of those flags lost.
or better yet, why not stick in a warehouse and hide it, we got a battleship, we can scrap that too, it was in a war that we lost
No we should not take those Vietnam War statues down. Those people fought against Communism and ought for the USA, not the CSA. They fought for what is right. And technically, Vietnam was still in charge of Vietnam. We were there fighting a war against the Communists. The Confederates were fighting to keep a secession based on desperately keeping slavery around. And they attacked on Ft. Sumter first. Again, what part of right and wrong is not being understood?
Don't compare our Vietnam Veterans to a bunch of traitors. And I'm sure Vietnam has no statues honoring our soldiers who fought against them.
Thank you. Our soldiers in Vietnam fought for this nation. Confederates fought to split away from the USA. In particular, Lee, who was sworn to protect the USA, chose the Confederacy over the nation he was sworn to protect. He is a traitor in every sense. The two cannot be compared. Making Confederate statues, but none to Vietnam War veterans, something is very screwed up.
Incorrect, the FACT is that these memorials were strewn all over the place, largely in the early-20th century to not commemorate the Confederacy, but to foster a public display of white supremacy. It is great that the Daughters of the Confederacy may (or may not) have solicited private funding to carve statues or create cemeteries, but for all of you championing these confederate monuments as FREE speech, have you ever asked the question "who exactly pays for the maintenance of all this Confederate stuff"?
As the rational people on this forum might suspect, and suspect correctly, all of this Confederate "remembrance" is one big government boondoggle:
As Loewen's book "Lies Across America" points out, much of what is symbolized by these Confederate monuments (statues and graves) has very little to do with the actual history of the Civil War and only came about decades after the Civil War to assert racial dominance in the Jim Crow Era. As numerous individuals on this forum have pointed out, very little of the history is actually being taught because primary sources generated from people who lived in the era are largely ignored and what is proffered in grade school history is a work of science fiction disseminated overwhelmingly by people unqualified to even teach the subject:
It was only a matter of time before there was pushback on this Jim Crow Era escapade and only a matter of time before the taxpayers of largely diverse cities got tired of paying to maintain stuff that has no business on sovereign , public, AMERICAN ground. James Loewen is the pre-eminent historian on historical myths (feel free to read his "Lies My Teacher Told Me", "Lies Across America", or "Sundown Towns") and has written extensively on this subject:
All of his and related works are easily accessible. Yet people continue just to make stuff up without either virtue of taken a credible college level history course or taking the class and completely ignoring the research presented to them. Because none of the tripe that is being spouted about "erasing history" is part of the social science curriculum of any accredited institution of higher learning.
You are absolutely right.
No honest person can claim that the Civil War was not started to preserve slavery.
No honest person can claim that the Civil War was not started to preserve slavery.
Unfortunately, there are still those who will try to say otherwise. And even after showing that a desperation to preserve slavery is a major part of it, there are those still trying to downplay it.
Didn't miss it. Just part of your revisionist history. Poor white folks decided to die because Lincoln was elected. Rather than gather all the facts, you hop on this bandwagon.
What crap. But as I said before, your are consistent. Slavery ... Slavery ... Slavery ... Me ... Me ... Me ... Me ...
My non-slave owners fought for states rights.
By the way ... more consistency on your part ... you (and your history revisionists) continue to ignore 1 January 1863. Therein lies the proof of 'states rights' vs slavery ... on both sides.
Didn't miss it. Just part of your revisionist history. Poor white folks decided to die because Lincoln was elected. Rather than gather all the facts, you hop on this bandwagon.
What crap. But as I said before, your are consistent. Slavery ... Slavery ... Slavery ... Me ... Me ... Me ... Me ...
My non-slave owners fought for states rights.
By the way ... more consistency on your part ... you (and your history revisionists) continue to ignore 1 January 1863. Therein lies the proof of 'states rights' vs slavery ... on both sides.
El Nox
Here is my question to you. Can you refute anything I just stated?
Here is my question to you. Can you refute anything I just stated?
Here's a thought ... stop obfuscating. Both of us know the answer, you refuse to admit it. BTW can you refute my points other than the biased tripe you've posted?
El Nox
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Oh well, lemme move on then. 