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Old 12-31-2015, 11:23 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,993 posts, read 44,793,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
Again, it's a slippery slope.
Too late. SCOTUS set the gold standard with the Hobby Lobby ruling. If there's a less burdensome (to one's religion) way to achieve a result, the First Amendment Right to exercise one's religion trumps law.

Same sex couples can patronize other wedding goods/services providers, just like women can access abortifacients via another method instead of forcing Hobby Lobby's owners to provide insurance that covers them against their religious beliefs even though doing so is in fact required by the ACA law.
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Seymour, CT
3,639 posts, read 3,338,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Nope. Read about the Santeria priest in the article I linked. He won his case.

The test widely recognized is if there's a less burdensome (to one's religious belief) way to achieve the same result. In the case of wedding goods/service providers, there is. Same sex couples can patronize other businesses providing the same wedding goods/services. Incidentally, that test is why Hobby Lobby won their Obamacare SCOTUS case. Women can access abortifacients via other means.

Same sex couples can buy wedding goids/services from other providers.
I just read that whole article, as was stated before, none of these examples were an imposition to other people. On top of that, none of these examples include refusal of service due to discrimination.

Also, these examples were not won through the first amendment, they were won through religious freedom acts that happened to be in those particular states.
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Seymour, CT
3,639 posts, read 3,338,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Too late. SCOTUS set the gold standard with the Hobby Lobby ruling. If there's a less burdensome (to one's religion) way to achieve a result, the First Amendment Right to exercise one's religion trumps law.

Same sex couples can patronize other wedding goods/services providers, just like women can access abortifacients via another method instead of forcing Hobby Lobby's owners to provide insurance that covers them against their religious beliefs even though doing so is in fact required by the ACA law.
Uh huh. This is why they lost their case and ended up paying...
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:30 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,993 posts, read 44,793,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
I just read that whole article, as was stated before, none of these examples were an imposition to other people. On top of that, none of these examples include refusal of service due to discrimination.

Also, these examples were not won through the first amendment, they were won through religious freedom acts that happened to be in those particular states.
State RFAs mirror the intent of the First Amendment by giving those wishing to exercise their Constitutional First Amendment Religious Freedom Rights support at the state level.

And like the point made in the article I linked, RFAs protect many more than just Christians.
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Seymour, CT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
State RFAs mirror the intent of the First Amendment by giving those wishing to exercise their Constitutional First Amendment Religious Freedom Rights support at the state level.

And like the point made in the article I linked, RFAs protect many more than just Christians.
I understand that. Still doesn't apply to this specific situation unless you broaden the definition to include discrimination against others.
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:36 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
Uh huh. This is why they lost their case and ended up paying...
Nope:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremec...-354_OPINION_3

Hobby Lobby's female employees can access abortifacients via a means other than Hobby Lobby's ACA-mandated insurance. Likewise, same sex couples can access wedding services/goods from providers other than those whose religion prohibits SSM.
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:40 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,993 posts, read 44,793,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
I understand that. Still doesn't apply to this specific situation unless you broaden the definition to include discrimination against others.
You're wrong. Hobby Lobby could have been cast as discriminating against women by refusing on religious grounds to provide insurance that covers abortifacients. They were not, because Hobby Lobby denied abortifacient insurance coverage for all. Likewise, some bakers refused to supply wedding goods/services for all same sex weddings.
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Old 12-31-2015, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,766,671 times
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Personally I won't be happy until every christian has to marry a gay man.
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Old 12-31-2015, 12:14 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,993 posts, read 44,793,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Personally I won't be happy until every christian has to marry a gay man.
Why impose your beliefs on others? The point is FREEDOM.

Sure, some wedding goods/service providers' religions prohibit same sex marriage. Why is that a problem? Simply don't do business with them. Why would anyone who supports SSM want to support their businesses anyway? We have freedom of choice in this country. USE it. Buycott!!!
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Old 12-31-2015, 12:27 PM
 
34,014 posts, read 17,045,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post

The answer is simple. If you provide a service to the public, then you cannot discriminate based on sexual orientation, race, age etc. it would be the same logic that prevented black people from receiving services because of race. It is unacceptable and should remain that way.


Amen, Southern Jim Crow fans tried this same stunt. And failed.
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