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Old 12-30-2015, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
5,281 posts, read 6,569,624 times
Reputation: 4405

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I respect your opinion and I really do.

But can you at least accept that you can only speak for yourself? You don't speak for me. I respect police officers and everything they do. They protect people like me and I am assuming they protect people like you as well. The only people don't like police officers are criminals. How can people deny this?

I am not saying they are perfect and all of them are angels. I have been stopped by police officers twice, both times are my fault. I just don't know where the blind hatred of police officers coming from. Sorry I don't.
I'm not against the idea of policing. I'm against the idea of a public police force. If police forces were private I would have more faith.

The thing is that we give the police force power. And we all know power corrupts. We can't stop the whole idea of corruption. But what we can do is give ourselves a choice in who we hire to protect us. I feel the police force is a one size fit all solution. And I feel it works well for some people, but not so well for others.

So why not have a choice in hiring what service works best for you, and someone else hiring what works best for them?
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,753,227 times
Reputation: 5277
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I respect your opinion and I really do.

But can you at least accept that you can only speak for yourself? You don't speak for me. I respect police officers and everything they do. They protect people like me and I am assuming they protect people like you as well. The only people don't like police officers are criminals. How can people deny this?

I am not saying they are perfect and all of them are angels. I have been stopped by police officers twice, both times are my fault. I just don't know where the blind hatred of police officers coming from. Sorry I don't.
What a sheltered live you've lived.

Innocent people are arrested and brutalized by police every day, all over the country. Even more are harassed, intimidated, assaulted, and robbed- all legally- by police every day.

The Innocence Project proves that our 'justice' system can't even reliably determine guilt/innocence for CAPITAL MURDER... which receives VASTLY more resources in terms of evidence gathering and courts.

But yes, if you were raised upper middle class, live in a nice neighborhood with a daddy who can afford a lawyer... odds are you have nothing to worry about.

I have zero criminal record, and I wouldn't **** on a cop if he was on fire. IMO they're the lowest of the low.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:41 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,021,490 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
A fired police officer can testify at a trial.
Yes they can but it isn't worth diddly. The force is fired for being corrupt and the jury is going to believe the testimony of one of the corrupt officers?

Quote:
Just because they're no longer employed doesn't mean that they aren't bound by their obligation to appear in court as a witness. But come on, you already know that.
They will be excused left and right as having moved away to gainful employment let alone my point above. The cases would just be tossed.

Defense: So tell us Mr Smith, why are you no longer a police officer?

Mr Smith: We were fired for being corrupt.


Quote:
The thing is that the whole idea of not relying on government scares you. As it does every American, as we've been indoctrinated to believe we need government to provide solutions. But it's fine, capitalism WILL work these things out.
I care less how it's done, my point is your solution is not a solution. The only solution is demanding that the police are held to a certain standard or the people riot.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,029 posts, read 27,438,416 times
Reputation: 15946
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
I'm not against the idea of policing. I'm against the idea of a public police force. If police forces were private I would have more faith.

The thing is that we give the police force power. And we all know power corrupts. We can't stop the whole idea of corruption. But what we can do is give ourselves a choice in who we hire to protect us. I feel the police force is a one size fit all solution. And I feel it works well for some people, but not so well for others.

So why not have a choice in hiring what service works best for you, and someone else hiring what works best for them?
Okay, so your real argument here is private policing vs. private policing.

I would argue that

Taxation is the payment method of the public sector, where budgets balloon and collectivism is the constant bailout for those who fail to properly manage their department. The public option of policing is paid before you receive any good or service, and still taken if you refuse or fail to use such service. The public sector of police does a horrible job of managing their growth, budget and needs of the consumer. Their budgets, power, and influence grow without the checks and balances of those who operate private businesses.

So private policing sounds like an attractive alternative.

But where will private policing force get their funding? From tax collect or donation from poor neighborhood?

Eventually, the poor minority neighborhoods still suffer due to lack of funding.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,029 posts, read 27,438,416 times
Reputation: 15946
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
What a sheltered live you've lived.

Innocent people are arrested and brutalized by police every day, all over the country. Even more are harassed, intimidated, assaulted, and robbed- all legally- by police every day.

The Innocence Project proves that our 'justice' system can't even reliably determine guilt/innocence for CAPITAL MURDER... which receives VASTLY more resources in terms of evidence gathering and courts.

But yes, if you were raised upper middle class, live in a nice neighborhood with a daddy who can afford a lawyer... odds are you have nothing to worry about.

I have zero criminal record, and I wouldn't **** on a cop if he was on fire. IMO they're the lowest of the low.
what a sad life you must have lived. stop insulting people just because they have different opinions. Honestly, you just sound scary. You wouldn't **** on a cop if he was on fire? really? They are the lowest of the low? All of them? Really?

wow. just wow
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
5,281 posts, read 6,569,624 times
Reputation: 4405
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Yes they can but it isn't worth diddly. The force is fired for being corrupt and the jury is going to believe the testimony of one of the corrupt officers?



They will be excused left and right as having moved away to gainful employment let alone my point above. The cases would just be tossed.

Defense: So tell us Mr Smith, why are you no longer a police officer?

Mr Smith: We were fired for being corrupt.




I care less how it's done, my point is your solution is not a solution. The only solution is demanding that the police are held to a certain standard or the people riot.

So would you rather have a corrupt officer keep his credibility by keeping his job? What? I think you're grasping for straws. you may not like privatization, but I think twiddling your thumbs waiting for the government to do something really isn't a solution. Privatization definitely does LARGELY and gives us choice.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,753,227 times
Reputation: 5277
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
what a sad life you must have lived. stop insulting people just because they have different opinions. Honestly, you just sound scary. You wouldn't **** on a cop if he was on fire? really?
Really.

Clearly you've never had friends and family caught up in our meat-grinder of a "justice" system.

When somebody makes a living as a cop, they are harassing, intimidating, assaulting, robbing, torturing and even murdering FOR A LIVING. If you're middle class or higher, odds are you'll never have a problem with the police unless you're blatantly breaking the law. If you're working class or lower- they are a nightmare. NOTHING good can come from even speaking to them. It's their JOB to put you in a cage and take your money- guilt or innocence has very little bearing on it.

Sorry if you find this insulting. I find naive support of our American Gulag to be disgusting beyond words.

Do you realize that we incarcerate more humans than any nation on EARTH? More in sheer numbers than even China. More per capita than even North Korea. Our lower classes live in a police state. With for-profit prisons (aka legalized slavery).

So no, I don't need a criminal record to hate the police.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
5,281 posts, read 6,569,624 times
Reputation: 4405
Quote:
But where will private policing force get their funding? From tax collect or donation from poor neighborhood?

Eventually, the poor minority neighborhoods still suffer due to lack of funding.

Well do the government hand out shoes? Nope. But do poor people have shoes? Yes. But how? Because someone make affordable shoes. As a private company you sell quality affordable service and target these neighborhoods and this demographic. The poor also have buying power. People forget this. The market will find a way.


Now will poor people CHOOSE to take advantage of a private police force? Probably not, but at least this is a choice.

As to how a private police force will get funding? How does any corporation get funding? Investors, loans, etc. It's a corporation.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:54 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,021,490 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
So would you rather have a corrupt officer keep his credibility by keeping his job?
So point ceded? We can fire and prosecute officers, public or private if we demand it.

Quote:
What? I think you're grasping for straws. you may not like privatization, but I think twiddling your thumbs waiting for the government to do something really isn't a solution. Privatization definitely does LARGELY and gives us choice.
An imaginary one for the reasons I noted.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,029 posts, read 27,438,416 times
Reputation: 15946
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Really.

Clearly you've never had friends and family caught up in our meat-grinder of a "justice" system.

When somebody makes a living as a cop, they are harassing, intimidating, assaulting, robbing, torturing and even murdering FOR A LIVING. If you're middle class or higher, odds are you'll never have a problem with the police unless you're blatantly breaking the law. If you're working class or lower- they are a nightmare. NOTHING good can come from even speaking to them. It's their JOB to put you in a cage and take your money- guilt or innocence has very little bearing on it.

Sorry if you find this insulting. I find naive support of our American Gulag to be disgusting beyond words.

Do you realize that we incarcerate more humans than any nation on EARTH? More in sheer numbers than even China. More per capita than even North Korea. Our lower classes live in a police state. With for-profit prisons (aka legalized slavery).

So no, I don't need a criminal record to hate the police.
The bolded, you know this how?

How many police officers do you personally know? How do you know all of them harass, intimidate, assault, rob, and torture (seriously, torture? ) ????!!!!!!!

I know five LAPD police officers, right, not a lot. But I know every single one of them is decent human being. They just want to collect their pay check, do their job, go home to their loved ones.

How can you judge everybody simply based on their career choices?

Police officers live middle class life style, they have American dreams just like everybody else does. They make an honest living by enforcing the laws. No more no less. Many are good people, not everybody is perfect.

where is your blind hatred coming from? There is no naive support of our American Gulag, just acknowledge the fact that cops are human too. Is it really that hard for you to accept? I found it beyond DISGUSTING THAT some people find waterboarding a damned terrorist to be inhuman, but when it comes to

kill the pigs, They all of sudden, become strangely silent. GROSS.
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