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Old 01-03-2016, 04:02 PM
 
461 posts, read 333,066 times
Reputation: 241

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
It's starting to dawn on me that the Russians seem to be telling the world more truth about what is happening in the middle east than our government is. They seem to have a more clear purpose and they seem to be actually trying to do the right thing. I have no idea what the US is doing against ISIS.

The Russians have been establishing their credibility for me for some time now. They have surprised me in more than a few issues, even though I still think that Putin is a corrupt thug...I do think he loves his country and is loyal to it. I have no faith in the loyalty of our President who I think is thinking about his own place in the world, not our place as a nation in the world.

The Russian passenger plane that was brought down. I thought for sure Putin would use that as PR to launch more military force when they did the exact opposite. Their investigation was clear and complete and they really didn't make any statements except they were working to get to the truth.

Then the Russians said that the US is attacking the wrong targets and helping ISIS. I scoffed at that at first. Typical Russians I thought being raised during the Cold War. Then other reports from our allies came out, like the Iraqi Army saying they witnessed US planes dropping supplies on ISIS controlled area. US airstrikes that either missed their targets or hit the wrong targets. COME ON, this doesn't happen in today's modern military!

So really, what is happening to our country? We do not seem to be doing right by the world anymore.
Yes. Simple as that. I believe NOTHING the mainsteam media in this country tells me. Its a lie and usually propaganda. Want truth? Find obscure alternate media sources,preferably the ones people love to attack. A HELL of a lot more truthful than the MSM.
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Old 01-03-2016, 04:05 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,324,132 times
Reputation: 9447
Lot of red Kool-Aid being drunk around here.
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Old 01-03-2016, 04:12 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,870,334 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
Our foreign policy has been a mess since Reagan left office.
It would appear that Trump is more of a Reaganite than a Neocon
or One-Worlder like Bush Sr. and Clinton were. We'll see if he wins.

I agree there. I would say our foreign policy has been a mess since Reagan left office and also before he entered office go back to at least JFK, with the exception of maybe Ford. And our foreign policy has been turned into the greatest mess under Obama. Hiliary would just build on that mess maybe even worsen it.
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Old 01-03-2016, 04:12 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,741,790 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I think the OP is trying to assign intent when simple incompetence is a more likely explanation.

In reality the whole region is a giant mess and it's not always obvious who controls what. Plus we have no real strategy since all likely outcomes are horrible.
That's not censorship. The US media simply chooses to report simplistic crap because that's what the audience wants. If it's fact-challenged propaganda that reinforces people's existing beliefs, even better.

You can call it whatever you want, but when I was in NYC when the WTC had the first plane hit I had people calling me on my cell from other countries to find out if I was okay before it hit the radio media.
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Old 01-03-2016, 04:14 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,870,334 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
It's not just our foreign policy, it's the censorship of US media. I've lost count of the amount of times that the media outside of the US had better and more informational media reporting then the US population was getting.

the federal government, media, education system and finance and corporations are all censoring anything negative about their one world (dis)order.
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Old 01-03-2016, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,257,063 times
Reputation: 19952
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
It's starting to dawn on me that the Russians seem to be telling the world more truth about what is happening in the middle east than our government is. They seem to have a more clear purpose and they seem to be actually trying to do the right thing. I have no idea what the US is doing against ISIS.

The Russians have been establishing their credibility for me for some time now. They have surprised me in more than a few issues, even though I still think that Putin is a corrupt thug...I do think he loves his country and is loyal to it. I have no faith in the loyalty of our President who I think is thinking about his own place in the world, not our place as a nation in the world.

The Russian passenger plane that was brought down. I thought for sure Putin would use that as PR to launch more military force when they did the exact opposite. Their investigation was clear and complete and they really didn't make any statements except they were working to get to the truth.

Then the Russians said that the US is attacking the wrong targets and helping ISIS. I scoffed at that at first. Typical Russians I thought being raised during the Cold War. Then other reports from our allies came out, like the Iraqi Army saying they witnessed US planes dropping supplies on ISIS controlled area. US airstrikes that either missed their targets or hit the wrong targets. COME ON, this doesn't happen in today's modern military!

So really, what is happening to our country? We do not seem to be doing right by the world anymore.
Nothing is happening to our country--we've just stopped meddling in the ME for a while, as we should. We are not helping ISIS--we are weakening them.

As far as Putin's handling of the plane crash, when Putin first starting assisting Assad, it was predicted there would be a terrorist attack against Russia. If Obama had done the same, resulting in a plane explosion, the Obama-haters would be directly blaming him for it for eternity.

Just curious as you seem to be somewhat of a Putin fan.

What do you think Putin would do if a bunch of armed yahoos took over a government building in Russia?
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Old 01-03-2016, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
5,772 posts, read 3,221,392 times
Reputation: 6105
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
But what I failed to say is I believe he hates Jews above all. His actions (and inactions) prove it.
Does Obama really hate the Jews? Is it because he said no to Netanyahu? Is it because he kept us out of another war on the other side of the Earth? Is it because he believes that Palestinians are getting a raw deal in their own country?

If the answer to any of the above questions is yes, maybe he spared us all the grief that his predecessor put us through.

If the answer to the Palestinian question is yes, maybe he saw too much of that type of segregation here.

Last edited by Tonyafd; 01-03-2016 at 04:40 PM..
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Old 01-03-2016, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,257,063 times
Reputation: 19952
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
There is no doubt that the USA's behavior to Israel is heart wrenching since Obama took office. I said that I believe Obama is an atheist and that he hates Christians more than he does Muslims.

But what I failed to say is I believe he hates Jews above all. His actions (and inactions) prove it.
I've never understood why people claim Obama hates Jews. Because of his policies regarding Israel? Do people really not understand the difference between being anti-Semitic and not agreeing with Israel's policies? I know many Jews who dislike Netanyahu's far-right policies.

He is very good friends with both Axelrod and Emanual, who are both Jewish, and have both worked in his admin. I'm sure there are more, but not as high profile.
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Old 01-03-2016, 05:04 PM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,704,134 times
Reputation: 5243
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
It's starting to dawn on me that the Russians seem to be telling the world more truth about what is happening in the middle east than our government is. They seem to have a more clear purpose and they seem to be actually trying to do the right thing. I have no idea what the US is doing against ISIS.

The Russians have been establishing their credibility for me for some time now. They have surprised me in more than a few issues, even though I still think that Putin is a corrupt thug...I do think he loves his country and is loyal to it. I have no faith in the loyalty of our President who I think is thinking about his own place in the world, not our place as a nation in the world.

The Russian passenger plane that was brought down. I thought for sure Putin would use that as PR to launch more military force when they did the exact opposite. Their investigation was clear and complete and they really didn't make any statements except they were working to get to the truth.

Then the Russians said that the US is attacking the wrong targets and helping ISIS. I scoffed at that at first. Typical Russians I thought being raised during the Cold War. Then other reports from our allies came out, like the Iraqi Army saying they witnessed US planes dropping supplies on ISIS controlled area. US airstrikes that either missed their targets or hit the wrong targets. COME ON, this doesn't happen in today's modern military!

So really, what is happening to our country? We do not seem to be doing right by the world anymore.

First off, I think many Americans accepted US propaganda without question, especially conservatives. It was called patriotism. Then something happened to change that. The election of the first......Obama to POTUS seemed to reduce the reverence for the office of the presidency as well as the level of patriotism. Many people started looking at Putin as the model of what a leader should be like. I do not think that would have EVER happened if we did not have our first........Obama. Overall, patriotism from the right appears to have faded under the first.......Obama. Now that patriotism has faded people are willing to take a look at what the other side is saying about the US. Nothing has really changed in regards to US geopolitical Objectives....or that of Russia. Its just that people have changed in the US now that we have our first......Obama.
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Old 01-03-2016, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,989,335 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
It's starting to dawn on me that the Russians seem to be telling the world more truth about what is happening in the middle east than our government is. They seem to have a more clear purpose and they seem to be actually trying to do the right thing. I have no idea what the US is doing against ISIS.

The Russians have been establishing their credibility for me for some time now. They have surprised me in more than a few issues, even though I still think that Putin is a corrupt thug...I do think he loves his country and is loyal to it. I have no faith in the loyalty of our President who I think is thinking about his own place in the world, not our place as a nation in the world.

The Russian passenger plane that was brought down. I thought for sure Putin would use that as PR to launch more military force when they did the exact opposite. Their investigation was clear and complete and they really didn't make any statements except they were working to get to the truth.

Then the Russians said that the US is attacking the wrong targets and helping ISIS. I scoffed at that at first. Typical Russians I thought being raised during the Cold War. Then other reports from our allies came out, like the Iraqi Army saying they witnessed US planes dropping supplies on ISIS controlled area. US airstrikes that either missed their targets or hit the wrong targets. COME ON, this doesn't happen in today's modern military!

So really, what is happening to our country? We do not seem to be doing right by the world anymore.



Some people are poor students of history for they never learned that Russia has been trying to establish a foothold in the Middle East since the end of WW 2 and been badly burned when these efforts either blew up in their faces or their proxies bit the dust. In fact one such misadventure the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan cost the Red Army nearly 20,000 lives and was one of the factors that so discredited the Soviet Government that it collapsed only a few years after it made a humiliating withdrawal in1988 from that country.


Another notable Soviet failure was the 1971 attempt by the USR and its Communist allies in Egypt who tried to stage a coup against Anwar Sadat who was trying to consolidate power after the death of Gamal Nasser Egypt's strongman . The USSR spent billions in aid (The Aswan High Dam was Soviet engineered and built) and sunk a similar amount into Egypt's military only to see it humiliated in 1967 and 1970. The USSR wanted to establish Naval, Army and Airforce bases in the heart of the Middle East to outflank NATO and the USA which had bases in Turkey, Greece, Italy ad Spain plus access to British bases in Cyprus, Gibraltar and Malta. (The USA also uses bases in Morocco, , Israel, The Persian Gulf and before 1979 Iran). Anwar Sadat refused to give the USSR this concession hence their attempt to remove him from power.


Other Soviet failures in the Middle east and North Africa include Somalia, Libya, Algeria, South Yemen.Iraq (The Soviets lost out when Saddam overthrew President Bakr in 1979.


Russia still has problems with Chechnya, Dagestan and the Crimean Tartears.
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