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Old 01-06-2016, 12:11 PM
 
20,458 posts, read 12,378,099 times
Reputation: 10251

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
This video is a fairly deep, intelligent, detailed discussion of the 2nd Amendment, so the vast majority of people probably won't want anything to do with it, but for what it's worth, here it is: http://wosu.org/2012/allsides-archive/history-of-second-amendment-and-its-relevance-in-modern-society/

I think that both sides of the gun debate are generally ignorant of what the 2nd Amendment was really about. This is unfortunate. We've become so addicted to memes and soundbites that the majority of people simply can't focus on anything for more that about 30 seconds. Bottom line: Gun regulations are as old as the 2nd Amendment itself. The only sensible debate concerns what are the best regulations to have, and what are the best ways to enforce them. On that score, Obama's proposals are not outrageous, and they really don't have much of anything to do with the 2nd Amendment. He is certainly not proposing anything that violates the 2nd Amendment. At worst, his proposals will simply fail to have any effect because congress won't allocate money to fund them.



im going to watch and give it thought.




but lets just be clear that Obamas most recent foray into the gun control debate, wont have any effect but not because of congress.... rather because what he has proposed does nothing to stop bad actors. It just makes it harder for law abiding citizens from getting and or selling some firearm they own.
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Old 01-06-2016, 12:14 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,997 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
Actually, no, it should not be that easy
Why not? Automobiles kill more people than guns, it isn't even a Constitutional Right to own one, and unregulated private cash sales of automobiles happen all the time. And depending on use, they don't even all have to be registered.
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Old 01-06-2016, 12:28 PM
 
29,519 posts, read 19,612,482 times
Reputation: 4537
So the executive order on gun control designed to keep “mentally ill” people from buying guns, does that mean that someone diagnosed with bipolar disorder under the care of a physician on medication will not be able to exercise his or her second amendment right? What about if they are police officers? What about a vet who suffers from PTSD?
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:18 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,819,598 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
im going to watch and give it thought.




but lets just be clear that Obamas most recent foray into the gun control debate, wont have any effect but not because of congress.... rather because what he has proposed does nothing to stop bad actors. It just makes it harder for law abiding citizens from getting and or selling some firearm they own.
It is always the end goal of all anti gun politicians, to restrict the rights of people who are not committing crimes to achieve the ultimate goal of disarmament of the poor, minorities and middle class, leaving only the wealthy and criminals able to protect themselves.
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Old 01-06-2016, 02:11 PM
 
10,926 posts, read 21,992,098 times
Reputation: 10569
So one of the goals of the President was to have more people have to be licensed dealers in an attempt to track more gun sales. Curiously Bill Clinton started the exact opposite during his presidency because;

"In 1994, ATF officials complained that many FFLs were not actually “engaged in the business” and oversight of the small sellers was cumbersome, if not impossible. “Probably 70 percent of the people holding licenses shouldn’t hold them".

Obama Gun Policy Reverses Clinton Policy

So failing to learn from history he wants to go back to the method the ATF said was impossible to oversee.
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Old 01-06-2016, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,884 posts, read 10,972,072 times
Reputation: 14180
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHDave View Post
So one of the goals of the President was to have more people have to be licensed dealers in an attempt to track more gun sales. Curiously Bill Clinton started the exact opposite during his presidency because;

"In 1994, ATF officials complained that many FFLs were not actually “engaged in the business” and oversight of the small sellers was cumbersome, if not impossible. “Probably 70 percent of the people holding licenses shouldn’t hold them".

Obama Gun Policy Reverses Clinton Policy

So failing to learn from history he wants to go back to the method the ATF said was impossible to oversee.
Well, obviously, in the current world view of the democrats, that makes perfect sense.

It definitely makes as much sense as "Let's pass a law or rule or regulation so we can say we did SOMETHING, even if it turns out to be useless!"
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Old 01-06-2016, 02:44 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,997 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
Well, obviously, in the current world view of the democrats, that makes perfect sense.

It definitely makes as much sense as "Let's pass a law or rule or regulation so we can say we did SOMETHING, even if it turns out to be useless!"
Or Pelosi's infamous... "...we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it..." because, you know, with all that transparency Obama promised, NO ONE including Congress knew what was in the ACA (Obamacare) before the Dems singlehandedly passed it completely without any R votes.
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Old 01-06-2016, 02:46 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,611,558 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Obama issues an order, which is not law, which cannot be enforced. In clear violation of the Constitution of the United States, and beyond his Constitutional authority, Obama "orders" (mandates) background checks for online & gun show sales.

This is unenforceable, as it is not law. Obama has no authority to make law. Secondly, "executive orders" may only apply to the administration and government agencies. They do not apply to private institutions, citizens, etc.

Therefore, there is nothing to compel anyone to follow his "order."

Obama is not a King, though he may think he is. Do not comply.
Dang, the man is asking for one to the temple.

Is he going to be the sacrifice for the anti-gun agenda?
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Old 01-06-2016, 02:47 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,611,558 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHDave View Post
So one of the goals of the President was to have more people have to be licensed dealers in an attempt to track more gun sales. Curiously Bill Clinton started the exact opposite during his presidency because;

"In 1994, ATF officials complained that many FFLs were not actually “engaged in the business” and oversight of the small sellers was cumbersome, if not impossible. “Probably 70 percent of the people holding licenses shouldn’t hold them".

Obama Gun Policy Reverses Clinton Policy

So failing to learn from history he wants to go back to the method the ATF said was impossible to oversee.


He is from the "it sounds good on paper" crowd.
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Old 01-06-2016, 02:52 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,324,132 times
Reputation: 9447
If Obama has violated the Constitution, I am sure that there is a Constitutionally friendly Federal Court in a city near you that will decide whether it is or isn't. That too is how the Constitution works.
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