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Not to get off topic, but I just had to respond to this.
It strikes my funny-bone that most conservatives are all gung-ho for Israel because thousands of years ago it was their homeland. That gives them the right to it, supposedly.
However, it's only been hundreds of years since the land in question belonged to native americans, yet they are dismissed as being 'self-serving'.
Oh, the irony!
That is an excellent point!
So now we finally know what they want, good article and gives some background on the posse. Some really weird characters.
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What do they want?
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Though the group's goals have so far seemed hazy, Ammon Bundy has said that they essentially want two things.
First, they want the federal government to relinquish control of the wildlife refuge so "people can reclaim their resources," he told CNN early Monday. And second, they want an easier sentence for Dwight Hammond and his son Steven, ranchers who were convicted in 2012 of committing arson on federal lands in Oregon.
Not to get off topic, but I just had to respond to this.
It strikes my funny-bone that most conservatives are all gung-ho for Israel because thousands of years ago it was their homeland. That gives them the right to it, supposedly.
However, it's only been hundreds of years since the land in question belonged to native americans, yet they are dismissed as being 'self-serving'.
Its a stupid point. Who in this country would give up their cushy Life with centralized heat, cell phones, the English language, modern American education and everything else that we cumulatively share in our society. Have fun putting the genie back in the bottle with liberal pyscho babble on how good going back in time would do us.
Have fun going back 200 + years in your magic time machine.
On the Israel point, if Israel was to disappear today there would be so much blood shed it would make Syria look like Shangrala
Its a stupid point. Who in this country would give up their cushy Life with centralized heat, cell phones, the English language, modern American education and everything else that we cumulatively share in our society. Have fun putting the genie back in the bottle with liberal pyscho babble on how good going back in time would do us.
Have fun going back 200 + years in your magic time machine.
On the Israel point, if Israel was to disappear today there would be so much blood shed it would make Syria look like Shangrala
It is a valid point every time I hear someone claim the Jews were in Israel first therefore the land belongs to them, but the Indians who were in the US first, that land doesn't belong to them. That is called hypocrisy.
1) Are they doing anything illegal? Burning any buildings, looting businesses, destroying property? At worst they might be disrupting the 2 people a month that might go to the refuge. Not like they are shutting down interstate highways, blocking businesses or occupying public parks or private malls.
2) Moot point since, AFAIK they have not been given any direct orders from LEO.
3) And?
They better not be eating the animals on the wildlife refuge.
Since they are on federal property, we're only talking about the FBI, right?
Its a stupid point. Who in this country would give up their cushy Life with centralized heat, cell phones, the English language, modern American education and everything else that we cumulatively share in our society. Have fun putting the genie back in the bottle with liberal pyscho babble on how good going back in time would do us.
Have fun going back 200 + years in your magic time machine.
On the Israel point, if Israel was to disappear today there would be so much blood shed it would make Syria look like Shangrala
Whaaat???????????
Oh, that's right. That logic cannot be disputed, so just throw out some babble.
People look at the laws and freedom in their own values and ideas.
Some laws created against the individual and against individual freedom and property.
Some laws were created for reasons of "making you safe" and protecting this or that.
In this case, the ranchers in these lands, farms, cattle etc have had issues with the federal government on I am sure many disagreements and laws and rule book changes. With no where to turn when it comes to federal land, upkeep and often the practices of land owners and cattle across thousands of miles of land becomes its own story in itself. What they could do 50 years ago and now are very different very regulated etc.
I think all protest groups black, white, etc and whatever the topic have to look at few things.
1. constitutional rights vs government oversight and not confused the 2. The broad paint brush of over-regulation and what you can not do and the injustices of the courts on sentencing is to be worked out in the courts.
2. If the federal government and courts are abusing power and or not seeking justice where the common public believes justice is not being done they protest and in some cases take to violence.
3. Similar cases of imminent domain (the seizing of property) for the use of common good ideas likely could be considered against constitutional rights of the individual of property and freedom.
4. Nothing in the constitution says you can not protest something, free speech, and the use of the 2nd amendment. I think the government has to think about killing people over X law or regulation and process when armed people look to stand against decisions or actions by the federal government.
5. I think the injustices of government vs the people has continue to approach action and it appears Americans because the court system has become indifferent and not a place of recourse for its actions.
6. During the boston bombing and Katrina hurricane nobody had rights to their property and lives. Government decided it was doing to seize whatever they wanted including guns in new orleans. Disasters bring out the worst in humanity and the control they believe they have over each other and when it comes to government they will use force.
7. Government needs to remember or understand people are free, and when they pass laws they don't read in congress or the President just say XYZ on a subject or changes a law as he sees fit. Americans will arm themselves and take hold in your buildings until reason and balance is restored to meaning of liberty.
His facts arent made up, the truth of the matter is, no conservative wants to answer the question truthfully.
Yes they are otherwise you would have backed them up instead of because you said so.
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Originally Posted by dsjj251
When those protesters occupied the governors offices in Florida, people said they should be arrested, same with the protesters in the Wisconsin Capitol.
You have no proof this is a conservative cause. Your statement is dishonest.
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Originally Posted by dsjj251
The big difference here, is that these mean have threatened to shoot any officer who tries to remove them( not arrest, just remove).
Because you aren't allowed to protect yourself or property right? That's governments job.
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Originally Posted by dsjj251
Everyone in law enforcement sees this a lose lose. You go in and someone might get killed. You stay out and you look weak, possibly opening the door for future even worse events.
That's another thing you made up because you cannot discuss the facts.
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Originally Posted by dsjj251
That being said, we wouldnt be having this same discussion if these people were black(not saying the LE response would be different), as mentioned earlier, there would have already been calls to storm the building and remove them.
Like the riots in Baltimore? LE get storm the streets and remove them? Or did they wait it out a bit?
The problem with the extreme loony left is they see racism where it isn't and don't do much when there is. All hat and no cattle.
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