Would this country be more conservative or liberal if it never passed the 17th amendment? (Al Gore, Congress)

[NY Jew]

Would this country be more conservative or liberal if it never passed the 17th amendment?

The 17th amendment changed how we vote on senators. Originally the Constitution had the state legislatures voting for the senators. The 17th amendment ratified in 1913 changed that to our current system of the people themselves doing so.


Please do not discuss this political nature of the amendment (if it really liberal or conservative).

[theunbrainwashed]

This country would be less democratic. At the time, corporations easily held the influences of the state legislatures. It still happens today of course, but we wouldn't have Social Security and Medicare that Republicans treasure so much and hold dear to their hearts if it wasn't for the 17th.

http://theusconstitution.org/news/17...t-under-attack

Parenthetically, he said it's possible that, without the 17th Amendment, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's New Deal might not have been enacted. "The question is whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. If you think the New Deal was a good thing, warts and all, you would obviously think the 17th Amendment was a good thing too."
Liberals are responding to the new attention to the 17th Amendment by recalling why it was enacted in the first place: a democratic impulse to empower voters with direct election of senators. "The story of the 17th Amendment is one of the progressive movement leading the way," said David Gans of the Constitutional Accountability Center, which takes a progressive view of the text and history of the Constitution. "The feeling was that the choice should be made by voters."
Gans also said it is "not surprising" that, seven years after the 17th Amendment's passage, a constitutional amendment giving the right to vote to women was approved by a Senate elected the new way — and pressured by women in their states. By making senators directly accountable to the public, Gans added, the 17th Amendment made it possible for Congress for the first time to regulate big corporations, which had a strong hold over many state legislatures.

[OICU812]

At the least, we would have a hell of a lot more republicanism.

[NY Jew]

Originally Posted by OICU812

At the least, we would have a hell of a lot more republicanism.

and Obama's first term would have been drastically more liberal they would have 62 democrats and would have a much easier time passing legislation beating the republican filibusterer.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...es-in-1-chart/

[Bulldogdad]

Absolutely NO way to tell.

[LauraC]

Originally Posted by OICU812

At the least, we would have a hell of a lot more republicanism.

How is that working out for us now?

[nicet4]

I didn't vote in the poll because the right question and answer wasn't available.

It should have been "Would this country be easily sold out to outside forces if the 17th...."

Sold as in prostitution because it is prostitution that rules the Senate now. Who has the most money can buy em!

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by nicet4

I didn't vote in the poll because the right question and answer wasn't available.

It should have been "Would this country be easily sold out to outside forces if the 17th...."

Sold as in prostitution because it is prostitution that rules the Senate now. Who has the most money can buy em!

Big government sold out the citizens long ago regardless of the 17th.

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by LauraC

How is that working out for us now?

how is what?

[earthlyfather]

Beginning with the 63rd Congress, after the passage and ratification of the 17th the majority paqrty frequency and majority party total seat numbers in the make up of the Senate speak loudly to the liberalization/progressivism of our federal government. See numbers below. Direct election has been a boon to political control of those who want a large central controlling government. No wonder the Democrat party loves direct election.

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/his...s/partydiv.htm

62nd Congress (1911-1913)
Majority Party: Republican (52 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (44 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 96
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63rd Congress (1913-1915)
Majority Party: Democrat (51 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (44 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Progressive
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
64th Congress (1915-1917)
Majority Party: Democrat (56 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (40 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
65th Congress (1917-1919)
Majority Party: Democrat (54 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (42 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
66th Congress (1919-1921)
Majority Party: Republican (49 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (47 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
67th Congress (1921-1923)
Majority Party: Republican (59 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (37 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
68th Congress (1923-1925)
Majority Party: Republican (53 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (42 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Farmer-Labor
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
69th Congress (1925-1927)
Majority Party: Republican (54 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (41 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Farmer-Labor
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
70th Congress (1927-1929)
Majority Party: Republican (48 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (46 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Farmer-Labor
Vacant: 1
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
71st Congress (1929-1931)
Majority Party: Republican (56 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (39 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Farmer-Labor
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
72nd Congress (1931-1933)
Majority Party: Republican (48 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (47 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Farmer-Labor
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
73rd Congress (1933-1935)
Majority Party: Democrat (59 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (36 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Farmer-Labor
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
74th Congress (1935-1937)
Majority Party: Democrat (69 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (25 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Farmer-Labor; 1 Progressive
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
75th Congress (1937-1939)
Majority Party: Democrat (76 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (16 seats)
Other Parties: 2 Farmer-Labor; 1 Progressive; 1 Independent
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
76th Congress (1939-1941)
Majority Party: Democrat (69 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (23 seats)
Other Parties: 2 Farmer-Labor; 1 Progressive; 1 Independent
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
77th Congress (1941-1943)
Majority Party: Democrat (66 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (28 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Independent; 1 Progressive
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
78th Congress (1943-1945)
Majority Party: Democrat (57 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (38 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Progressive
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
79th Congress (1945-1947)
Majority Party: Democrat (57 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (38 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Progressive
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
80th Congress (1947-1949)
Majority Party: Republican (51 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (45 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
81st Congress (1949-1951)
Majority Party: Democrat (54 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (42 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
82nd Congress (1951-1953)
Majority Party: Democrat (49 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (47 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
83rd Congress (1953-1955)
Majority Party: Republican (48 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (47 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Independent
Total Seats: 96
Note: See Senate Membership Changes During the 83rd Congress
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
84th Congress (1955-1957)
Majority Party: Democrat (48 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (47 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Independent
Total Seats: 96
Note: Strom Thurmond (SC) was an Independent Democrat during this Congress until his resignation on April 4, 1956. In November of that year he was elected as a Democrat to fill the vacancy created by his resignation. The Independent member listed above was Wayne Morse (OR), who changed from an Independent to a Democrat on February 17, 1955.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
85th Congress (1957-1959)
Majority Party: Democrat (49 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (47 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 96
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
86th Congress (1959-1961)
Majority Party: Democrat (65 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (35 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
87th Congress (1961-1963)
Majority Party: Democrat (64 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (36 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
88th Congress (1963-1965)
Majority Party: Democrat (66 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (34 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
89th Congress (1965-1967)
Majority Party: Democrat (68 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (32 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
90th Congress (1967-1969)
Majority Party: Democrat (64 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (36 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
91st Congress (1969-1971)
Majority Party: Democrat (57 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (43 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
92nd Congress (1971-1973)
Majority Party: Democrat (54 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (44 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Conservative (caucused with the Republicans); 1 Independent (caucused with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
93rd Congress (1973-1975)
Majority Party: Democrat (56 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (42 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Conservative (caucused with the Republicans); 1 Independent (caucused with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
94th Congress (1975-1977)
Majority Party: Democrat (61 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (37 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Conservative (caucused with the Republicans); 1 Independent (caucused with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
Note: Results of the New Hampshire election were contested and the seat remained vacant until August 8, 1975, when Norris Cotton (R) was appointed to fill the seat until a special election could be held. John Durkin (D) won that special election and was sworn in on September 18, 1975. The statistics noted here reflect the Senate’s party division following Durkin’s election.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
95th Congress (1977-1979)
Majority Party: Democrat (61 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (38 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Independent (caucused with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
96th Congress (1979-1981)
Majority Party: Democrat (58 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (41 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Independent (caucused with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
97th Congress (1981-1983)
Majority Party: Republican (53 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (46 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Independent (caucused with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
98th Congress (1983-1985)
Majority Party: Republican (55 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (45 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
99th Congress (1985-1987)
Majority Party: Republican (53 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (47 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
100th Congress (1987-1989)
Majority Party: Democrat (55 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (45 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
101st Congress (1989-1991)
Majority Party: Democrat (55 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (45 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
102nd Congress (1991-1993)
Majority Party: Democrat (56 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (44 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
103rd Congress (1993-1995)
Majority Party: Democrat (57 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (43 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
Note: Party division changed to 56 Democrats and 44 Republicans after the June 5, 1993 election of Kay B. Hutchison (R-TX).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
104th Congress (1995-1997)
Majority Party: Republican (52 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (48 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
Note: Party ratio changed to 53 Republicans and 47 Democrats after Richard Shelby of Alabama switched from the Democratic to Republican party on November 9, 1994. It changed again, to 54 Republicans and 46 Democrats, when Ben Nighthorse Campbell of Colorado switched from the Democratic to Republican party on March 3, 1995. When Robert Packwood (R-OR) resigned on October 1, 1995, the Senate divided between 53 Republicans and 46 Democrats with one vacancy. Ron Wyden (D) returned the ratio to 53 Republicans and 47 Democrats when he was elected to fill the vacant Oregon seat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
105th Congress (1997-1999)
Majority Party: Republican (55 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (45 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
106th Congress (1999-2001)
Majority Party: Republican (55 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (45 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
Note: As the 106th Congress began, the division was 55 Republican seats and 45 Democratic seats, but this changed to 54-45 on July 13, 1999 when Senator Bob Smith of New Hampshire switched from the Republican party to Independent status. On November 1, 1999, Smith announced his return to the Republican party, making the division once more 55 Republicans and 45 Democrats. Following the death of Senator Paul Coverdell (R-GA) on July 18, 2000, the balance shifted again, to 54 Republicans and 46 Democrats, when the governor appointed Zell Miller, a Democrat, to fill the vacancy.
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107th Congress (2001-2003)
Majority Party (Jan 3-20, 2001): Democrat (50 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (50 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
________
Majority Party (Jan 20-June 6, 2001): Republican (50 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (50 seats)
Other Parties: 0
Total Seats: 100
______
Majority Party (June 6, 2001-November 12, 2002 --): Democrat (50 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (49 seats)
Other Parties: 1
Total Seats: 100
_____
Majority Party (November 12, 2002 - January 3, 2003): Republican (50 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (48 seats)
Other Parties: 2
Total Seats: 100
Note: From January 3 to January 20, 2001, with the Senate divided evenly between the two parties, the Democrats held the majority due to the deciding vote of outgoing Democratic Vice President Al Gore. Senator Thomas A. Daschle served as majority leader at that time. Beginning on January 20, 2001, Republican Vice President Richard Cheney held the deciding vote, giving the majority to the Republicans. Senator Trent Lott resumed his position as majority leader on that date. On May 24, 2001, Senator James Jeffords of Vermont announced his switch from Republican to Independent status, effective June 6, 2001. Jeffords announced that he would caucus with the Democrats, giving the Democrats a one-seat advantage, changing control of the Senate from the Republicans back to the Democrats. Senator Thomas A. Daschle again became majority leader on June 6, 2001. Senator Paul D. Wellstone (D-MN) died on October 25, 2002, and Independent Dean Barkley was appointed to fill the vacancy. The November 5, 2002 election brought to office elected Senator James Talent (R-MO), replacing appointed Senator Jean Carnahan (D-MO), shifting balance once again to the Republicans -- but no reorganization was completed at that time since the Senate was out of session.
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108th Congress (2003-2005)
Majority Party: Republican (51 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (48 seats)
Other Parties: Independent (1 seat) (caucused with the democrat
Total Seats: 100
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109th Congress (2005-2007)
Majority Party: Republican (55 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (44 seats)
Other Parties: Independent (1 seat) (caucused with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
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110th Congress (2007-2009)
Majority Party: Democrat (49 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (49 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Independent; 1 Independent Democrat (both caucus with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
Note:Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut was reelected in 2006 as an independent candidate, and became an Independent Democrat. Senator Bernard Sanders of Vermont was elected as an Independent.
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111th Congress (2009-2011)
Majority Party: Democrat (57 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (41 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Independent; 1 Independent Democrat (both caucus with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
Note: Senator Arlen Specter was reelected in 2004 as a Republican, and became a Democrat on April 30, 2009. Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut was reelected in 2006 as an independent candidate, and became an Independent Democrat. Senator Bernard Sanders of Vermont was elected in 2006 as an Independent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
112th Congress (2011-2013)
Majority Party: Democrat (51 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (47 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Independent; 1 Independent Democrat (both caucus with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
113th Congress (2013-2015)
Majority Party: Democrat (53 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (45 seats)
Other Parties: 2 Independents (both caucus with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
Note: Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) died on June 3, 2013. He was replaced by Jeffrey Chiesa (R-NJ) on June 6, 2013, making the party division 52 Democrats, 46 Republicans, and 2 Independents (who both caucus with the Democrats). On October 31, 2013, Cory Booker (D-NJ) replaced Chiesa, returning the party division to 53 Democrats, 45 Republicans, and 2 Independents (who both caucus with the Democrats).
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114th Congress (2015-2017)
Majority Party: Republican (54 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (44 seats)
Other Parties: 2 Independents (both caucus with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100