Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So what you are saying is that Unions have rules that people can stand around and do nothing without getting paid for it? You have to know that is just silly. When you see people standing around a construction site it is usually due to one of the following reasons:
1)Worker B has to wait for worker A to finish before he can proceed
2)Workers are waiting for a delivery of supplies or equipment that they need before they can resume their work.
3) They are waiting for an inspection or sign off before they and resume their work
Here on San Francisco they have a good workers union and another Union for various cashier/non food prep work. So you have to order the sandwhich from the food prep worker who makes it, but they are not allowed to ring up your order because that has to be done by the other union employee who is not allowed to help in the kitchen at all. So what could be done by one person now requires two and guess what happens to the price of the sandwhich?
What does this have to do with unions? And you have no idea what's really going on....maybe breaks, maybe apprentices learning the job. Who knows. You go into offices and see the same thing so I don't understand your point
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
So what you are saying is that Unions have rules that people can stand around and do nothing without getting paid for it? You have to know that is just silly. When you see people standing around a construction site it is usually due to one of the following reasons:
1)Worker B has to wait for worker A to finish before he can proceed
2)Workers are waiting for a delivery of supplies or equipment that they need before they can resume their work.
3) They are waiting for an inspection or sign off before they and resume their work
wow ... union apologists. O well. Maybe sometime you can look at the union rules dictating how much work a member can do and how many 'supervisors' are required. Until then, spare me your apologetic blather. And BTW, I take it that you know your numbered reasons are fact not just your created 'reasons'.
I am old enough to remember when elevators were completely manual. It took a certain amount of skill to match the power the elevator had to the load on it and bring it to a smooth stop at the correct floor. I am young enough to remember automatic elevators as well. For a number of years the union elevator operators still had jobs pushing the floor buttons for you.
One third 33% of American gainfully employed (>$7k/yr) are employed in some kind of POS (point of sale) cashier position. Checkers we call them on the West Coast. When automation reaches critical mass and self-check kiosks are used as more than just a way to get one checker to do the work of six there will not be any unions to protect cashiers and provide an orderly migration to the New World Order.
I know checkers personally and it is usually the old ones they want to force out or the very young ones with no seniority that they put in charge of the self-check kiosk. As I understand it, 75% of shoppers cannot use them effectively. Those very shoppers want unions gone and the Market to dictate and people to rise and fall according to their talents. Fine. Be careful what you wish for. I can use a self-check kiosk. I don't ever take taxis. I don't own a car. My house is paid off. The end of everything will inconvenience me, but it will not kill me. More of you than you know will not be able to say the same thing. You are going to wish you had made more of an attempt to preserve civilization instead of arguing so hard for everything to go away and embrace the every man (woman) for themselves that seems to be the core value of Conservatives.
All that said, most of you posting here are on on the same side of the achievement slope as I am. We are just coasting into the finish. Its sad that you don't have more empathy or sympathy for your offspring or theirs. The world you want will chew them up and spit out the bones for you to bury. I am not ok with that. I don't understand how or why so many of you are.
Last edited by Leisesturm; 01-14-2016 at 09:28 AM..
He is most likely using "liberals" to mean NeoConservatives or what they call Neoliberalist in Europe, but that argument doesn't hold because nearly EVERY recent President has followed the NeoCON doctrine of constant war and the dismantling of the American middle class-Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama-they all have had a part in destroying the working and middle class in this country. We have not had a "true liberal" like Bernie Sanders in power.
We have but it hasn't been since Jimmy Carter. Every President starting at Reagan has played an enormous role in the transfer of wealth from the American Middle class to Multi-National Conglomerates with no interest in us.
He is most likely using "liberals" to mean NeoConservatives or what they call Neoliberalist in Europe, but that argument doesn't hold because nearly EVERY recent President has followed the NeoCON doctrine of constant war and the dismantling of the American middle class-Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama-they all have had a part in destroying the working and middle class in this country. We have not had a "true liberal" like Bernie Sanders in power.
Reduce the amount of power that big government has to do such things, and you solve many of the problems.
So what could be done by one person now requires two and guess what happens to the price of the sandwhich?
I've bought sandwiches in 15 of 50 states and the pricing is more determined by the level of quality than union membership. San Francisco isn't most people's idea of a super low COL rust belt economy. But there is this: at the top of the food chain... when you get past all the tiers of worker, manager, etc. and get to the top... there is a very, very, very rich, man or woman isn't there. Of course there is. The union isn't your enemy. That is the lesson Occupy Wall Street was trying to teach.
Reduce the amount of power that big government has to do such things, and you solve many of the problems.
Maybe, but... what informs this? Blind hope? Because as far as I know we haven't actually had anarchy in this country in your lifetime. What makes modern Conservatives feel that a country of the size, sophistication and capability as the United States could function with Charitable Organizations doing all the work of keeping people nurtured, and the private sector could do everything else. Do you imagine that without the EEO that racial minorities would ever be hired again? Oh they'd work. But for wages? And without the EPA... have you seen the webcams from Beijing? Is that what you want for New York or Los Angeles? The fiasco in Flint, MI... that's what you get, on a national scale when you completely remove accountability from the government equation. It won't happen. You can post on this for as long as you have breath but it is never going to happen. Me, I'd learn to live within the society we have. It isn't perfect by a long shot. I'd take it even further to the left than it is. That way lies the solution. But I (and you) benefit mightily from a position that is somewhat left of center. West Virginia, Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky, etc. they're doing real well, yes? No. And that's with the chains on. All free and unfettered race to the bottom free market anarchy and America would be overthrown in a generation. They aren't going to let it happen.
It's amazing how many cheer on the unfettered destruction of the US working class. Yeah, we can sure trust corporations and the government to treat workers fairly when the workers have absolutely no leverage, right?
Maybe, but... what informs this? Blind hope? Because as far as I know we haven't actually had anarchy in this country in your lifetime. What makes modern Conservatives feel that a country of the size, sophistication and capability as the United States could function with Charitable Organizations doing all the work of keeping people nurtured, and the private sector could do everything else. Do you imagine that without the EEO that racial minorities would ever be hired again? Oh they'd work. But for wages? And without the EPA... have you seen the webcams from Beijing? Is that what you want for New York or Los Angeles? The fiasco in Flint, MI... that's what you get, on a national scale when you completely remove accountability from the government equation. It won't happen. You can post on this for as long as you have breath but it is never going to happen. Me, I'd learn to live within the society we have. It isn't perfect by a long shot. I'd take it even further to the left than it is. That way lies the solution. But I (and you) benefit mightily from a position that is somewhat left of center. West Virginia, Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky, etc. they're doing real well, yes? No. And that's with the chains on. All free and unfettered race to the bottom free market anarchy and America would be overthrown in a generation. They aren't going to let it happen.
Here on San Francisco they have a good workers union and another Union for various cashier/non food prep work. So you have to order the sandwhich from the food prep worker who makes it, but they are not allowed to ring up your order because that has to be done by the other union employee who is not allowed to help in the kitchen at all. So what could be done by one person now requires two and guess what happens to the price of the sandwhich?
i'm sorry but unless you can show me the MOU for that job I am very dubious about your claim
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Get Real
