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It's amazing how many cheer on the unfettered destruction of the US working class. Yeah, we can sure trust corporations and the government to treat workers fairly when the workers have absolutely no leverage, right?
The only time you don't have leverage is when you provide little to no value or your skill set is easily replaceable.
The only time you don't have leverage is when you provide little to no value or your skill set is easily replaceable.
Keep telling yourself that. How did that work out for most US workers during the Gilded Age? By the way, most union employees "have some skills." The idea that any average high school grad can walk in and perform at same level as most union employees, either public or private, is pretty laughable.
wow ... union apologists. O well. Maybe sometime you can look at the union rules dictating how much work a member can do and how many 'supervisors' are required. Until then, spare me your apologetic blather. And BTW, I take it that you know your numbered reasons are fact not just your created 'reasons'. El Nox
I don't post BS, anything I say can be confirmed, if you are curious about my claims about construction workers, call a union construction company and ask the manager or owner, it would take you all of 10 minutes. One of our friends owns one of the biggest paving companies in California (and it's union) that is where I got my information. But where is your proof that all these construction workers are standing around BECAUSE they are in a union? Proof of 'how much work' a member can do? Another wild claim- can you prove that or is it just another of your 'made up reasons' for hating unions?
I don't apologize for unions, I don't need to, I belonged to one for 24 years and every penny I paid in dues was worthwhile. One thing for sure, an individual can't negotiate alone..whether it's for a change in working conditions or a pay raise because owners/managers hold all the cards and will laugh at you when you walk in with your 'demands'. The only way rank and file workers have a voice is through collective bargaining. One of these days the public will figure that out and instead of being jealous of people who belong to a union and demand one in their workplace.
Keep telling yourself that. How did that work out for most US workers during the Gilded Age?
Well, I will advise anyone who plans to travel back in time that unions are a good idea then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaseMan
By the way, most union employees "have some skills." The idea that any average high school grad can walk in and perform at same level as most union employees, either public or private, is pretty laughable.
If you have skills, you have value to the company and the majority of them will provide the appropriate compensation for it.
Since unions tend to favor seniority over skills, it's very possible that a person with greater skills will be laid off before the person with less skills but more time in. This doesn't benefit the worker, the other workers or the company.
Well, I will advise anyone who plans to travel back in time that unions are a good idea then.
If you have skills, you have value to the company and the majority of them will provide the appropriate compensation for it.
Since unions tend to favor seniority over skills, it's very possible that a person with greater skills will be laid off before the person with less skills but more time in. This doesn't benefit the worker, the other workers or the company.
So flaws in Union leadership=celebration over their demise?
Almost half this country is unskilled, if they were all skilled then it wouldn't be a skill anymore.
Since unions tend to favor seniority over skills, it's very possible that a person with greater skills will be laid off before the person with less skills but more time in. This doesn't benefit the worker, the other workers or the company.
Do you have proof of that or is it purely anecdotal? My son is a CPA for a public agency. He gets a small premium for having a CPA. There are 4 pay steps for Accountant, all employees who perform satisfactorily will receive a small percentage pay increase at each milestone. it takes about 4 years to reach the highest pay step. After that there is no premium for longevity.
Conservatives don't want to "reduce" anything. They want it gone. Period. Defense of the country only. Like there would be anything left to defend. Conservatives of 2016 are horrified at all the spending that goes on, and want to bring spending back to 1970 levels when most things cost 1/30 of what they do now. If that isn't the definition of ... impossible... I don't know. Sure there is waste. Fix that. It can be fixed. Maybe billions more than at present could be freed up by NOT giving tax breaks to key players that already pay record low taxes. We go on and on about America's Corporate tax rate and how high it is. What ISN"T said is how few Fortune 500 companies actually pay those 'high' corporate taxes. The ones that really make the money have all made deals and gotten exemptions and BILLIONS of dollars in revenue are kept out of the general fund of infrastructure improvement and other forward progress for the country. Government and its power is not the problem. Wealth and income inequality is absolutely the problem and with unions gone wages go down. Certainly they don't rise. Over time that leads to what we have at present. A dying middle class.
Conservatives don't want to "reduce" anything. They want it gone. Period. Defense of the country only. Like there would be anything left to defend. Conservatives of 2016 are horrified at all the spending that goes on, and want to bring spending back to 1970 levels when most things cost 1/30 of what they do now. If that isn't the definition of ... impossible... I don't know. Sure there is waste. Fix that. It can be fixed. Maybe billions more than at present could be freed up by NOT giving tax breaks to key players that already pay record low taxes. We go on and on about America's Corporate tax rate and how high it is. What ISN"T said is how few Fortune 500 companies actually pay those 'high' corporate taxes. The ones that really make the money have all made deals and gotten exemptions and BILLIONS of dollars in revenue are kept out of the general fund of infrastructure improvement and other forward progress for the country. Government and its power is not the problem. Wealth and income inequality is absolutely the problem and with unions gone wages go down. Certainly they don't rise. Over time that leads to what we have at present. A dying middle class.
We have but it hasn't been since Jimmy Carter. Every President starting at Reagan has played an enormous role in the transfer of wealth from the American Middle class to Multi-National Conglomerates with no interest in us.
Yes that great St. Reagan...
Yep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
Reduce the amount of power that big government has to do such things, and you solve many of the problems.
Government doesn't even have the power today-it is an illusion of power. We've had "Puppet Presidents" for decades-since Carter, as mentioned above. The majority of those selected to office are bought and paid for by nationless/detached institutions empowered through the privately controlled and owned Federal Reserve-where the real power lies. Bernie is the only candidate talking about what needs to be done-an audit of the Federal Reserve-and a detachment from the globalist bankers that have hi-jacked it for their own benefit-which do not align with interests of The US or Americans. Furthermore the "too big to fail" banks-which have also been empowered and brought back to life time and time again by the Fed-must be dismantled. They have only grown to control more of our economy since 2008.
Of the 100 largest economies in the World today there are more nationless/detached institutions and banks than entire nations of people. Their goal is global economic hegemony-and Governments must be usurped of their power/lose sovereignty to make that happen. This is what we are seeing today. And some cheer it on..
What do public employees have to be protected from?
Elected officials.
In our state here, we had the "Facebook law" banning teachers from having social media accounts or text messaging their own children. We had the "pink-shirt ban", where legislators passed a law banning fire fighters from wearing pink shirts for breast cancer awareness (and not just on duty, at all times). One of our school districts here passed an ordinance banning teachers from being inside any establishment with a liquor license; eventually overturned when it was pointed out this made it very difficult for teachers to buy groceries. Our county government was having trouble with employee retention (extending a wage freeze from 2007 to 2020 was a big part of that). The solution? They put an ordinance in place making it illegal for a former employee to work for any other government entity or any vendor for 12 months after their employment ends; and requiring them to report whenever they apply for another job. Strangely, that still has not solved the turnover problem (though it has led to employees leaving the state when they quit).
(And yes, we have a ban on public sector unions, with only a small handful of grandfathered unions formed in the 1800s. Only temporary "collective bargaining units" are allowed, with no power to do anything other than negotiate non-binding compensation agreements.)
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