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Old 01-27-2016, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,723 posts, read 2,220,180 times
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Of the three countries Iran is the most Westernized and a better partner. There is corruption in Iran for sure, but they are primed to hit the ground running if a couple changes are made in government. Not so with Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, both of which are culturally way behind what we'd expect in a civil society.
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,723 posts, read 2,220,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMoreJuice View Post
Two liberal democracies do not go to war with each other and since Iran is not a liberal democracy, conflict will always arise or at least suspicion. We see this today with Iran's sponsor of terror and its spread of influence in the region, which has caused strife and conflict.
You've got to be kidding. It's the Saudis who are terrified of losing control and are behind the destabilization efforts. Much of Saudi Arabian oil is in Shia majority territory, and those minorities have been mistreated enough by their government that it is not unfair to question their allegiance. In the long run Iran will regain its historic status, ie, Persian influence.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:03 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,956 posts, read 24,669,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMoreJuice View Post
The International system does not operate the way that you perceive, It's wishful thinking otherwise. The United States and the West have "meddled in affairs" in its history, but who hasn't in some form or another? Historians today are documenting that western "meddling" was not as disastrous as people today use to excuse particular actions. Basic International Relation 101 would inform you that the world is anarchic and that there is no imperial evidence to suggest that an no interference U.S would prevent Iran from harming the United States. Two liberal democracies do not go to war with each other and since Iran is not a liberal democracy, conflict will always arise or at least suspicion. We see this today with Iran's sponsor of terror and its spread of influence in the region, which has caused strife and conflict.

What is your supporting claim of the west destroying Iran's economy over "allegations?" A
I disagree. Look at Russia, most Russians don't even like Putin, but they prefer him because he is the lesser evil. It is the same reason why even Germans who disliked the Nazis fought for Germany, i.e. people prefer their own country - no matter how much it sucks - to interference from outsiders who are perceived as a threat.
Iran has no interest in harming the US, it is on the other side of the world and couldn't care less what happens in the Americas or in Africa or in east Asia.
Claiming someone else wants to hurt a country is the common pretext to camouflage and justify one's own aggression these days, just think of the whole national security mess.

No matter how one looks at it, at the end of the day all the problems go back to the conflict between Israel and Palestine. Unless that is solved there will be terrorism, Islamist governments, etc. because that conflict polarizes the whole region and makes people interfere that should stay out of it. The mullahs are only in charge because of our interference and support for the Shah, similar problem as with Mubarak and others.

Another issue is the conflict between the two big Muslim faiths. Since Muslims have not official speakers, unlike the Catholic Church, it is hard to solve that conflict in a civilized way.

Well, Iran says it has been enriching uranium and doing other nuclear research for civil purposes (which every country is allowed to do), the West says that did so in order to get the atomic bomb. Neither side has proven its point. But unlike civilized Western standards which we keep bragging about, our approach was guilty until proven innocent. It was an economic war against Iran, plain and simple.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:27 AM
 
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,300 posts, read 4,398,299 times
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The prevailing winds of that area will bring the radiation to Afghanistan and right back to Pakistan. Tactical nukes with ground impact would throw up less radiation into the air, but the damage isn't as effective as an air burst. Either way, Pakistan would be very foolish to nuke Iran as they would be nuking themselves as well.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:28 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,179,170 times
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More idiot threats from an idiotic nation.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:46 AM
 
1,676 posts, read 941,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I disagree. Look at Russia, most Russians don't even like Putin, but they prefer him because he is the lesser evil. It is the same reason why even Germans who disliked the Nazis fought for Germany, i.e. people prefer their own country - no matter how much it sucks - to interference from outsiders who are perceived as a threat.
Iran has no interest in harming the US, it is on the other side of the world and couldn't care less what happens in the Americas or in Africa or in east Asia.
Claiming someone else wants to hurt a country is the common pretext to camouflage and justify one's own aggression these days, just think of the whole national security mess.

No matter how one looks at it, at the end of the day all the problems go back to the conflict between Israel and Palestine.
Unless that is solved there will be terrorism, Islamist governments, etc. because that conflict polarizes the whole region and makes people interfere that should stay out of it. The mullahs are only in charge because of our interference and support for the Shah, similar problem as with Mubarak and others.

Another issue is the conflict between the two big Muslim faiths. Since Muslims have not official speakers, unlike the Catholic Church, it is hard to solve that conflict in a civilized way.

Well, Iran says it has been enriching uranium and doing other nuclear research for civil purposes (which every country is allowed to do), the West says that did so in order to get the atomic bomb. Neither side has proven its point. But unlike civilized Western standards which we keep bragging about, our approach was guilty until proven innocent. It was an economic war against Iran, plain and simple.
ISIS and the Sunni-Shiite conflict (which has been raging for hundreds of years) has nothing to do with Israel, although ISIS may want to eliminate Israel. It has to do with Islamic Arab ignorance. Arabs wish to rule over the entire Middle East. They did it before with Iran, hundreds of years ago, because once again, they couldn't stand a non-Arab presence in the region. They did, to some extent, with Turkey, for the same reason. They are doing it to the Kurds (along with Iran and Turkey). They are trying to do it to Israel. At the end of the day, all problems go back to the Arabs and their lack of respect for anything or anyone not Arab and not Muslim.
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:01 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,956 posts, read 24,669,791 times
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Islam is a -ist ideology, no doubt about it. Still, that applies to all three religions from the Middle East.
Islam is a fat bully on the school yard and still has to grow up, i.e. become secular and optional. So when many Christians and Jews have done it despite the same disgusting roots, Muslims should also be able to do it one day. They already used to be further down that road, but unfortunately they dropped back, not least in the wake of the Palestinian conflict, which has radicalized the whole region.
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,454,009 times
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Lightbulb Pakistan: If Iran attacks Saudi Arabia, we will wipe it off the face of the Earth

It would be SO much better if Pakistan wiped out both Iran and Saudi.

Probably too much to hope for.
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
2,423 posts, read 2,081,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint. View Post
You've got to be kidding. It's the Saudis who are terrified of losing control and are behind the destabilization efforts. Much of Saudi Arabian oil is in Shia majority territory, and those minorities have been mistreated enough by their government that it is not unfair to question their allegiance. In the long run Iran will regain its historic status, ie, Persian influence.
Iran is the "most westernized?" Pray tell how the Iranian Revolutionary movement which is an ideologically anti-western, is the most "western" country? Saudi Arabia and Iran are equally responsible for the destabilization of the region, amongst other factors. But if Iran will restore "Persian influence" in the region, how does that work with being an western country?
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
2,423 posts, read 2,081,990 times
Reputation: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I disagree. Look at Russia, most Russians don't even like Putin, but they prefer him because he is the lesser evil. It is the same reason why even Germans who disliked the Nazis fought for Germany, i.e. people prefer their own country - no matter how much it sucks - to interference from outsiders who are perceived as a threat.
Iran has no interest in harming the US, it is on the other side of the world and couldn't care less what happens in the Americas or in Africa or in east Asia.
Claiming someone else wants to hurt a country is the common pretext to camouflage and justify one's own aggression these days, just think of the whole national security mess.
Nope, you cannot steer off the path of international theory. Iran has a Realist perspective of global view while the United States is in the Liberalist camp. You cannot ponder and speak about Iran's goals and strategies with a liberalist lens but through a realist. The common citizen and their support for whomever has no validity in this argument, they are substantially a non factor. Iran views the United States as a threat towards its self interests, and vis-vera. But I did find what you bolded interesting, since you said it yourself.. Iran can perceive anything as a "threat" and take action. While Iran is not sending a military to attack the U.S, Iran has sent protégés and financial backing to commit acts of terror against Americans. For this alone, Iran is no friend of the U.S.

Quote:
No matter how one looks at it, at the end of the day all the problems go back to the conflict between Israel and Palestine. Unless that is solved there will be terrorism, Islamist governments, etc. because that conflict polarizes the whole region and makes people interfere that should stay out of it. The mullahs are only in charge because of our interference and support for the Shah, similar problem as with Mubarak and others.
Yes the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a huge problem in the region that has brought actors to the table angry. The Muallahs are in charge because they can be, they want to be, and they were able to with sprouting hatred to the West.

Quote:
Another issue is the conflict between the two big Muslim faiths. Since Muslims have not official speakers, unlike the Catholic Church, it is hard to solve that conflict in a civilized way.

Well, Iran says it has been enriching uranium and doing other nuclear research for civil purposes (which every country is allowed to do), the West says that did so in order to get the atomic bomb. Neither side has proven its point. But unlike civilized Western standards which we keep bragging about, our approach was guilty until proven innocent. It was an economic war against Iran, plain and simple.
It's a very complex issues with severe implications in the region and for the West.
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