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Old 01-17-2016, 09:50 AM
 
29,547 posts, read 9,713,411 times
Reputation: 3469

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch33 View Post
Well to be fair, all the 'pub candidates pretty much promised the same: "I'll rebuild our military and declare war!!"

On who? Eh - they'll figure that out later.
If you say so, but I've never heard anyone on national stage make a statement like Cruz did during the debate. We "buy" this sort of nonsense, even cheer it, and no doubt we Americans are capable of consuming just about any nonsense -- in mass...
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:07 AM
 
Location: east coast
2,846 posts, read 2,969,939 times
Reputation: 1971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
I can't help but noticing that your "gut instinctions" didn't quite extend to the point where you outline an alternative (and possibly superior) reaction to two USN boats finding themselves in foreign territorial waters in a very tense corner of the world.

Blaze of glory time? Talk the Iranian forces out of coming aboard by pointing out the questionable ethics in doing so? Appeal to their better nature? Call a time-out?

The crews are back, as are the boats. Did the USN look a bit silly? Yes. But that was due to questionable seamanship, and every time that happens, it's considered a win if you end up with right number of people inside the boat and the water remaining outside of the boat.
Again, the disconnect I speak of. I am not proposing or did I indicate any specific measures that should have occurred or that I myself would have acted a certain way. There is always this need for an alternative- Obama asks for it all the time. I have however, stated the realities of this situation and that we are at our weakest- literally. And because of this, we are being taken advantage of.

Let me give you a real life example that happens all the time. As a former police officer, there were the diplomatic types that only used their "politics" because they didn't want to go hands on. They knew all the rules of the book but never went hands on. Whenever on a scene, they would start with the "come on guys, yada yada yada". Meanwhile, the thugs and suspects were slowly skipping away and they would be left with not even a witness in sight. These are the same officers ironically, that are quick to use their weapons because they have not enough police presence to know when to use force through proper training. Eventually these officers made desk duty because they lost too many fights or let too many suspects get away.

My point is, when you come on the scene, the thugs should know not to mess with you- not to test you, they respect you. They see halfamazing cutting the corner and they know what time it is. Halfamazing doesn't need to get out of his car. Just his mere presence alone gives light to the store owners for that brief moment. It's not fear through force of might but through presence.

America has lost this but we WANT IT BACK.
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,203,370 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
And murdering fetuses in the womb. Wait, he did not preach that.
No, but his dad did.
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:40 AM
 
46,946 posts, read 25,979,166 times
Reputation: 29440
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfamazing View Post
Again, the disconnect I speak of. I am not proposing or did I indicate any specific measures that should have occurred or that I myself would have acted a certain way. There is always this need for an alternative- Obama asks for it all the time. I have however, stated the realities of this situation and that we are at our weakest- literally. And because of this, we are being taken advantage of.

Let me give you a real life example that happens all the time. As a former police officer, there were the diplomatic types that only used their "politics" because they didn't want to go hands on. They knew all the rules of the book but never went hands on. Whenever on a scene, they would start with the "come on guys, yada yada yada". Meanwhile, the thugs and suspects were slowly skipping away and they would be left with not even a witness in sight. These are the same officers ironically, that are quick to use their weapons because they have not enough police presence to know when to use force through proper training. Eventually these officers made desk duty because they lost too many fights or let too many suspects get away.

My point is, when you come on the scene, the thugs should know not to mess with you- not to test you, they respect you. They see halfamazing cutting the corner and they know what time it is. Halfamazing doesn't need to get out of his car. Just his mere presence alone gives light to the store owners for that brief moment. It's not fear through force of might but through presence.

America has lost this but we WANT IT BACK.
You never had it. Except for possibly a few months after WWII, there was never a time where the rest of the world's countries meekly acquiesced America's right to put US military units wherever the US damn well pleased, or else.

Your analogy assigns the role of street thugs to other nations with the US as the tough local officer, right? Kind of arrogant right off the mark, there - Iran hasn't asked you to straighten out what happens in their territorial waters, if memory serves.

And it gets worse - when your navy strays into another nation's territorial water, you're the one breaking the law. If you insist on the right to do so without consequence because of your "might", you're no longer Officer Firm-but-Fair, you're the big guy at the end of the bar who gets away with stuff because he can beat people up. And that's not behavior that engenders respect.

Anyway, relations between nations only vaguely resemble those between humans.

The adage used to be "speak softly, and carry a big stick". That can instill respect. Not "I have a big stick, so everybody else better speak softly" - that's a recipe for resentment.

I am amazed that this needs explaining.
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:42 AM
 
29,547 posts, read 9,713,411 times
Reputation: 3469
Default Our weakest...

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfamazing View Post
Again, the disconnect I speak of. I am not proposing or did I indicate any specific measures that should have occurred or that I myself would have acted a certain way. There is always this need for an alternative- Obama asks for it all the time. I have however, stated the realities of this situation and that we are at our weakest- literally. And because of this, we are being taken advantage of.

Let me give you a real life example that happens all the time. As a former police officer, there were the diplomatic types that only used their "politics" because they didn't want to go hands on. They knew all the rules of the book but never went hands on. Whenever on a scene, they would start with the "come on guys, yada yada yada". Meanwhile, the thugs and suspects were slowly skipping away and they would be left with not even a witness in sight. These are the same officers ironically, that are quick to use their weapons because they have not enough police presence to know when to use force through proper training. Eventually these officers made desk duty because they lost too many fights or let too many suspects get away.

My point is, when you come on the scene, the thugs should know not to mess with you- not to test you, they respect you. They see halfamazing cutting the corner and they know what time it is. Halfamazing doesn't need to get out of his car. Just his mere presence alone gives light to the store owners for that brief moment. It's not fear through force of might but through presence.

America has lost this but we WANT IT BACK.
Thanks for these insights, but can you offer more in the way of facts to substantiate your claim that "we are at our weakest?" I ask, because those on stage to debate for our GOP vote all claim the very same thing, but they too seem awfully big on rhetoric and anecdotes rather than much else.

Also when it comes to police, I think most citizens that are counting on police to do their jobs properly are getting a little concerned about what we see in some of these videos that seem to suggest no such concern when it comes to the threat of thugs. I know a few police officers personally, and we all appreciate what challenge it is to be dealing with the dregs of society on a daily basis, but I don't think any officer should be "quick to use their weapons" as a rule. They should be prudent and exercise good judgement just like everyone must when the public trust is placed in their hands.

Just like there are good and bad guys, good and bad workers, good and bad doctors, there are good and bad police officers, and too bad we all suffer because of the "bad apples," but we don't do ourselves any good by denying they are forever in our midst and forever need to be flushed out before they do more damage for all concerned.
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Stasis
15,823 posts, read 12,461,965 times
Reputation: 8599
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
And murdering fetuses in the womb. Wait, he did not preach that.
"murdering fetuses in the womb" is here:

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open. (Hosea 13:16)

At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women. (2 Kings 15:16)

Abort fetuses conceived through infidelity:
"But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. (Numbers 5:20:21)
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:55 AM
 
Location: One of the 13 original colonies.
10,190 posts, read 7,951,691 times
Reputation: 8114
iberals need to stay out of our national security issues.



Liberals can't be trusted with national security.
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:57 AM
 
Location: DFW
40,952 posts, read 49,176,191 times
Reputation: 55003
A liberal is just someone who's never had someone close mugged, shot or raped.

I'll bet Europe becomes a whole lot less liberal over the next 20 years. The US will also follow.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Arizona
13,778 posts, read 9,660,467 times
Reputation: 7485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Did any of this sound good before it left your head? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.




Indeed. Remember how long China kept the pilots? Kept the plane?



What is this nonsense you are screaming in all capital letters? Calm down.
He's saying that you'll let someone rape your mother if they promise to vote for a liberal.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:18 AM
 
2,962 posts, read 4,997,735 times
Reputation: 1887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
A liberal is just someone who's never had someone close mugged, shot or raped.

I'll bet Europe becomes a whole lot less liberal over the next 20 years. The US will also follow.
Well you're right about not being a victim. Somehow I grew up in Camden, NJ and worked most of my adult life in questionable neighborhoods in NJ and PA. Never owned a gun, never had a problem other than a stolen battery and a car stereo... Somehow I don't think my views would change if I had. If you use your head to avoid the obvious and treat everyone with the same respect you think you deserve, things tend to stay pretty uneventful.
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