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I had to fall back on other alternatives at the time of course, but it was well worth pointing out that Medicare is just flat-out crazy on many many issues.
It has been my contention for years now that before you even consider single-payer, you gotta fix what's already broken: The costs of healthcare.
American single-payer would look very different from Europe or Canada because prescription and healthcare special interests have the politicians in their pocket and reward them for good behavior. Single-payer in America would keep charging the $15 for single Tylenol and $23 for a single alcohol swab. RX companies will continue to charge thousands of dollars a month for a single prescription they produce at crazy-cheap rates. Out of that ill-gotten cash, the Democrats and Republicans will continue to be rewarded for being such good boys and girls and not disrupting the money making machine.
Of course, if we retain the status quo, nothing will change. But if the government is the only source of reimbursement, the drug companies and hospitals will roll over and sit up like good dogs.
My Medicare statements always look something like this:
Charges: $4533.56
Allowed: $3177.34
Medicare Adjustment: $2122.14
Medicare Paid: $917.66
Your responsibility: $137.54
The key lines are the "allowed" expense, which is what the government permits the hospital to charge, and the "medicare adjustment"' which is the amount Medicare negotiated on my behalf. In this case, that reduced the cost down to a reasonable amount. And anyone with a Medigap plan (which costs about $150 a month) would pay nothing.
There is nothing in the ACA or Obamacare that gets us remotely close to single-payer.
Obamacare forces everyone to pay into the middle-man known as for-profit private insurance, which raises costs greatly because they are in business to maximize profit at your expense. OTOH single-payer eliminates the private insurance middle-man altogether. Single-payer would simply be an expansion of Medicare that is accessible to everyone.
In many ways Obamacare is worse than what we had before.
Except for one key component: it forced insurers to provide coverage to folks with pre-existing conditions.
singlepayer wont save you a dime.... but if you are a taxpayer you sure will be screwed
if the payer (government in this case) says the payment is xxx, yet the provider NEEDS yyy to cover all his over head, then its not just about a payment...we have many (some say as many as 1500) cost of living areas within the usa.... that's one of the key things to remember is that one size does not fit all
with UHC you cant GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (look at the health dept horror clinics)
you (the taxpayer) cant afford singlepayer aka uhc....unless we change the tax system
singlepayer ( total government funding(taxpayer) and total government control) is NOT what we need...not if we EXPECT the QUALITY of care
when you look at the COSTS of ACTUAL care (not insurance) and the OVERHEAD costs associated with the care..the cost would be astronomical to cover 320 million people
and lets look at the some other numbers:
the ACTUAL cost just to help americans with Alzheimer's is over 300 billion every year
number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.8 million for a total of 19 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer....the cost is over 100 billion. and expected to be 158 billion by 2020
number of americans with heart disease: 26.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 16 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.2 million)).....800,000 people in the USA die from heart disease annually....the cost 440 billionannualy
number of americans in full pledged nursing homes: 2 million...... the average cost Adult Day Health Care,.18,000 per year......assisted living facility 43,000 per year....nursing home (semi-private room),.80,000 per year.......nursing home (private room),.91,000
number of americans in all levels of nursing homes and assisted living....11 million (Annually 10,995,100 people receive support from the 5 main long-term care service; home health agencies (5,742,500), nursing homes (2,383,700), hospices (1,544,500), residential care communities (913,300) and adult day service centers (373,200)...............total cost of long term care 450 billion annually...and going up every year https://www.genworth.com/corporate/a...t-of-care.html
More than 25 million Americans have significant vision loss.((a total of 80 million Americans have potentially blinding eye diseases. )) (((hmmm more than 25 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))......The cost of vision loss, including direct costs and lost productivity, is estimated to exceed $139 billion Cost of Vision Problems — Discussion
number of americans with diabetes: 29 million....total cost 295 billion per year
number of americans with asthma: 26 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.......annual costs 66 billion per yearand increasing
while some of those may overlap...look at those numbers that's over 150 million with MAJOR health problem,,costly problems......we will ALWAYS be the largest spender in the world...we have the 3rd highest population in the world (next to china and India) and we have more people (total, not a percentage) with major problems than any other country in Europe.....I just showed you at least 150 million people with cancer, heart, blindness, diabetes, asthma.......that's more than France and great Britain COMBINED for their total populations.
so what are we saying we should FORCE doctors and nurse to work for minimum wage. and have offices in huts
when you pay that doctor $100 ,, its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS
how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark
how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????
how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????
how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even american
how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???
how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????
how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????
don't you get it... medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)
want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-20000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-78,000 in the usa
is that what you want??? do you want to have medical PROFESSIONALS be forced to work for nearly minimum wage
.............I and most people (to include republicans) would be all for single payer...except for two things that the "pro singlepayer" people cant answer.......
1. it wouldn't be like the CRAPCARE of the health department clinics (death traps), I want a GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (not health dept horror clinics)...
2. and there was a fair way of funding it......replacing the personal income tax, the estate tax, the corporate tax with the fair tax (a consumption tax) is about the only way to fund it...but the liberals will never go for it...their ansewr is MORE taxes on the middleclass
if you are a taxpayer...you cant afford singlepayer
Dude, Medicare and private health plans do not pay that amount to the to the hospitals. The hospitals can charge anything they want, but the prices are set by the insurance industry.
The only doctors that can charge above what plans pay are plastic surgeons.
You missed the most important factor in the price of medicine. The health plans make Billions in profits every year by reducing payments to hospitals and doctors and by raising the premiums for patients. It is an industry that never goes out of style and makes money every year.
The health insurance lobby is among the most influential in Washington and make sure congress does not go for Medicare for all.
Right but we can't supposedly even afford single-payer Medicare just for the elderly even with its other restriction, premiums, deductible, 20% coinsurance and copays.
How in the world will we be able to afford Medicare for all? I agree for profit private insurance sucks. ACA is worse than what we had before. I'm not sure what the answer is, maybe get rid of health insurance all together.
Ah, but the government will have to power to say "This is how much you can charge for x, y, and z. Now deal with it." That's the way it's done in nearly every other country in the world.
Example: I recently spent three years in Japan. Their hospitals are given a list each year by the government which specifies the cost of every medication, procedure, and allied expense. Their hospitals have learned to function within these reasonable constraints. So can ours.
You're delusional if you think the medical industry won't pay the pols to keep their rackets intact.
While some sunlight has been shed on the hefty sums shoveled into
congressional campaign coffers in an effort to influence the Democrats'
massive healthcare bill, little attention has been focused on the far
larger sums received by President Barack Obama while he was a candidate
in 2008.
A new figure, based on an exclusive analysis created for
Raw Story by the Center for Responsive Politics, shows that President
Obama received a staggering $20,175,303 from the healthcare industry
during the 2008 election cycle, nearly three times the amount of his
presidential rival John McCain. McCain took in $7,758,289, the Center
found.
-----------------------
Obama is really good at pretending to be a liberal, isn't he?
He almost had me fooled for a while with all that hope and change talk.
Maybe he was once but like most politicians has become corrupted by money.
Though to be fair its pretty hard not to, given how the system currently works.
singlepayer wont save you a dime.... but if you are a taxpayer you sure will be screwed
if the payer (government in this case) says the payment is xxx, yet the provider NEEDS yyy to cover all his over head, then its not just about a payment...we have many (some say as many as 1500) cost of living areas within the usa.... that's one of the key things to remember is that one size does not fit all
with UHC you cant GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (look at the health dept horror clinics)
you (the taxpayer) cant afford singlepayer aka uhc....unless we change the tax system
singlepayer ( total government funding(taxpayer) and total government control) is NOT what we need...not if we EXPECT the QUALITY of care
when you look at the COSTS of ACTUAL care (not insurance) and the OVERHEAD costs associated with the care..the cost would be astronomical to cover 320 million people
and lets look at the some other numbers:
the ACTUAL cost just to help americans with Alzheimer's is over 300 billion every year
number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.8 million for a total of 19 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer....the cost is over 100 billion. and expected to be 158 billion by 2020
number of americans with heart disease: 26.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 16 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.2 million)).....800,000 people in the USA die from heart disease annually....the cost 440 billionannualy
number of americans in full pledged nursing homes: 2 million...... the average cost Adult Day Health Care,.18,000 per year......assisted living facility 43,000 per year....nursing home (semi-private room),.80,000 per year.......nursing home (private room),.91,000
number of americans in all levels of nursing homes and assisted living....11 million (Annually 10,995,100 people receive support from the 5 main long-term care service; home health agencies (5,742,500), nursing homes (2,383,700), hospices (1,544,500), residential care communities (913,300) and adult day service centers (373,200)...............total cost of long term care 450 billion annually...and going up every year https://www.genworth.com/corporate/a...t-of-care.html
More than 25 million Americans have significant vision loss.((a total of 80 million Americans have potentially blinding eye diseases. )) (((hmmm more than 25 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))......The cost of vision loss, including direct costs and lost productivity, is estimated to exceed $139 billion Cost of Vision Problems — Discussion
number of americans with diabetes: 29 million....total cost 295 billion per year
number of americans with asthma: 26 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.......annual costs 66 billion per yearand increasing
while some of those may overlap...look at those numbers that's over 150 million with MAJOR health problem,,costly problems......we will ALWAYS be the largest spender in the world...we have the 3rd highest population in the world (next to china and India) and we have more people (total, not a percentage) with major problems than any other country in Europe.....I just showed you at least 150 million people with cancer, heart, blindness, diabetes, asthma.......that's more than France and great Britain COMBINED for their total populations.
so what are we saying we should FORCE doctors and nurse to work for minimum wage. and have offices in huts
when you pay that doctor $100 ,, its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS
how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark
how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????
how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????
how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even american
how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???
how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????
how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????
don't you get it... medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)
want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-20000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-78,000 in the usa
is that what you want??? do you want to have medical PROFESSIONALS be forced to work for nearly minimum wage
.............I and most people (to include republicans) would be all for single payer...except for two things that the "pro singlepayer" people cant answer.......
1. it wouldn't be like the CRAPCARE of the health department clinics (death traps), I want a GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (not health dept horror clinics)...
2. and there was a fair way of funding it......replacing the personal income tax, the estate tax, the corporate tax with the fair tax (a consumption tax) is about the only way to fund it...but the liberals will never go for it...their ansewr is MORE taxes on the middleclass
if you are a taxpayer...you cant afford singlepayer
We can't afford NOT to have single- payer. Medicare was going to be the end of the world, remember? Now it serves millions of retired people and provides excellent medical care with dignity. Maybe if folks stopped saying "single payer" and started thinking of it as Medicare for every American, things would cool down and come into focus.
Eliminate the insurance monsters, the malpractice trial lawyer weasels, and the medical conglomerates, and we could darn near save enough to provide quality care for every citizen. Modest tax increases ( or maybe a designated national VAT) would cover the rest of the cost.
If we don't move in this direction, we might as well just start handing over our paychecks to the insurance companies, and hope that they give ua an allowance to rent a video and buy a bag of Cheetos once in a while.
I wonder what would happen if every insurance company and hospital HAD TO BE not-for-profit.
Not non-profit. But not-for-profit.
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