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For me "Take back our country" means driving the Progressives back under the rock they crawled out from under.
These people find someone who says something they don't approve of and they go after them with their longknives.
THey protest, they boycott they demand the poor slug who said something they don't approve gets fired.
That is happening daily. Colleges are ugly places where people get safe places to play with dolls if they hear words like "where are you from" and other "micro-agressions"
For me "Take back our country" means driving the Progressives back under the rock they crawled out from under.
These people find someone who says something they don't approve of and they go after them with their longknives.
THey protest, they boycott they demand the poor slug who said something they don't approve gets fired.
That is happening daily. Colleges are ugly places where people get safe places to play with dolls if they hear words like "where are you from" and other "micro-agressions"
So you think that this is the biggest threat to our freedoms?
The talk radio you listen is screwing up your logic.
For me "Take back our country" means driving the Progressives back under the rock they crawled out from under.
These people find someone who says something they don't approve of and they go after them with their longknives.
THey protest, they boycott they demand the poor slug who said something they don't approve gets fired.
That is happening daily. Colleges are ugly places where people get safe places to play with dolls if they hear words like "where are you from" and other "micro-agressions"
Progressive describes me about as well as any political label, and I can tell you my confused Ferd friend, you've got a perspective in bad need of correction.
Seems to me that Progressives are the ones who have moved "we the people" forward from the same sort of misguided beliefs that once upon a time had black folks valued less than whites according to our Constitution, women without a vote, and on and on from there. Wasn't the conservative voices that pushed us forward in those regards, and the last thing you want is for those people to go back under the rock from where they came. At least I hope not...
I've never used a knife or gun or any weapon to go after anyone I didn't agree with, but I'm definitely using my keyboard to let you know I sure don't approve of your opinion. That make me some sort of radical or you some sort of poor slug? Again, I sure hope not.
Colleges have long been the breeding ground of protest that has often changed this nation's wrong-headed ventures (like Vietnam) or bad public polices (like segregation). Maybe you too are part of the status quo that just don't much like change or people who don't necessarily think just like you, but if that's the case, you are the problem, not the college kids.
Where are you from anyway?
Make of that question what you will, but you might want to calm down a bit first. Not everyone from either side of progress is necessarily as bad as you may think...
Agreed, but I was reacting/responding to your "neighbor's garbage" analogy that suggests the neighbors [Europe] came to help [America] from somewhere else.
<shrug> It was the US that was attacked, and Afghanistan was a direct reaction to that attack. NATO even offered to invoke Arrticle V, but the US declined.
Quote:
The problem is in everyone's neighborhood. "We" didn't take the tools and go somewhere else. We just got a little misguided in terms of where the fires were actually coming from...
I wish I could agree with you that Iraq was essentially a well-intended mistake, but I 'm not buying it. From where I'm sitting, the GWB administration decided to cash in on the international goodwill following 9/1 to carry out a foreign policy objective that had nothing to do with terrorism.
And the Freedom Fries/Old Europe rhetoric was not very well received.
<shrug> It was the US that was attacked, and Afghanistan was a direct reaction to that attack. NATO even offered to invoke Arrticle V, but the US declined.
I wish I could agree with you that Iraq was essentially a well-intended mistake, but I 'm not buying it. From where I'm sitting, the GWB administration decided to cash in on the international goodwill following 9/1 to carry out a foreign policy objective that had nothing to do with terrorism.
And the Freedom Fries/Old Europe rhetoric was not very well received.
Agreed. Not sure where to peg the beginning of terrorism, who was attacked first or where, but I don't find myself often defending America in these regards. Lots of Americans are not all too proud of post-WWII American foreign policy, least of all the Iraq blundering. It really killed me to watch GW squander that international goodwill as you well describe for the reasons you also well point out.
Ironically, it seems some of that "goodwill," or something like it, is resulting from the smaller more frequent attacks getting spread around to more countries, causing us all to share in one another's grief and resolve, but small consolation given the little signs of putting down the terrorists. Also ironic, since I certainly support Obama's more pragmatic strategic approach over that of George "mission accomplished" Bush.
Rhetoric is certainly the least of our problems, but no doubt we can do better on all counts.
We've got Trump possibly coming to the rescue, so there is still hope, don't despair...
Progressive describes me about as well as any political label, and I can tell you my confused Ferd friend, you've got a perspective in bad need of correction.
Seems to me that Progressives are the ones who have moved "we the people" forward from the same sort of misguided beliefs that once upon a time had black folks valued less than whites according to our Constitution, women without a vote, and on and on from there. Wasn't the conservative voices that pushed us forward in those regards, and the last thing you want is for those people to go back under the rock from where they came. At least I hope not...
I've never used a knife or gun or any weapon to go after anyone I didn't agree with, but I'm definitely using my keyboard to let you know I sure don't approve of your opinion. That make me some sort of radical or you some sort of poor slug? Again, I sure hope not.
Colleges have long been the breeding ground of protest that has often changed this nation's wrong-headed ventures (like Vietnam) or bad public polices (like segregation). Maybe you too are part of the status quo that just don't much like change or people who don't necessarily think just like you, but if that's the case, you are the problem, not the college kids.
Where are you from anyway?
Make of that question what you will, but you might want to calm down a bit first. Not everyone from either side of progress is necessarily as bad as you may think...
It was the "progressives" in the early 20th century who passed eugenics laws that forcibly sterilized people deemed "unfit" to breed, namely, Blacks, poor Whites, Catholics, Native Americans, etc. Progressive Woodrow Wilson segregated the civil service and FDR favored segregation and wouldn't even congratulate the Black athletes who humiliated Hitler at the Olympics. Conversely, conservative Calvin Coolidge pushed for equal rights for all races, fought the KKK, and got citizenship and voting rights passed for Native Americans.
It was the "progressives" in the early 20th century who passed eugenics laws that forcibly sterilized people deemed "unfit" to breed, namely, Blacks, poor Whites, Catholics, Native Americans, etc. Progressive Woodrow Wilson segregated the civil service and FDR favored segregation and wouldn't even congratulate the Black athletes who humiliated Hitler at the Olympics. Conversely, conservative Calvin Coolidge pushed for equal rights for all races, fought the KKK, and got citizenship and voting rights passed for Native Americans.
Not sure why you say those folks wanting to sterilize other folks were "progressives," but given the many definitions of Progressive that I've come to know from all too many conservatives, I'm sure the definition you've conjured up for yourself here won't surprise me.
So tell me, in the same way you view and portray progressives and conservatives in this little summary of yours, how would you label our Founding Fathers, many who were slave owners? Would you label Lincoln a progressive or a conservative? Amidst all this insight you offer about FDR and the days that followed him, how do you reconcile the likes of George Wallace or anyone else who hung onto those backward views related to race?
Looking that far back in history, you need to consider context and not who was necessarily absolutely right or wrong about these matters, but who was pushing us forward progressively vs holding us back by hanging onto the status quo.
Plenty of old-timers had trouble coming around, both conservatives and liberals, but on the whole..., conservatives have been the ones that hang onto the status quo, no matter how wrong, the hardest and the longest, and that's still going on today!
I think what people mean when they say Europe isn't free like the US is because they're socialists. People in Europe look to and count on their government to take care of them. They always have.
Europe also doesn't believe in harsh punishments for criminals. There is no death penalty, no matter how heinous the crime. Another example of their softness towards crime is not allowing citizens to have pepper spray. If a juvi commits rape (in Sweden for example), they get off with as little as community service and monetary reparations. Even murderers walk after a few years in prison.
When you see it argued on CD, they're most likely referring to our 2nd amendment rights.
I'd argue that a harsh view of crime is more totalitarian than free. Assuming we define freedom as lack of governmetn involvement, which according to your socialist argument, is exactly how it's defined. In this sense, Europe has more civil freedom than America, but less economic freedom. As I correct? Or do you think sending mass numbers of people into a system that is designed, quite brilliantly might I add, to keep people in it and label it 'criminal justice' is an extension of freedom?
Economic freedom? Not sure what it means exactly, but according to a new Stanford study the US ranks only 10th (out of the 10 countries studied) in terms of social mobility. http://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi-...ve-Summary.pdf
Economic freedom? Not sure what it means exactly, but according to a new Stanford study the US ranks only 10th (out of the 10 countries studied) in terms of social mobility. http://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi-...ve-Summary.pdf
I too often wonder what we mean by freedom when it comes to what Americans enjoy that Europeans don't...
Of course the freedom to have our guns is obvious, but as one who doesn't care to exercise that freedom like NRA types do, I suppose I can't say I miss that when I travel in Europe or consider living there. Also of course, everyone has their own views about what freedom means and how they want to live their life, but usually the complaint is that Europe tends more socialist where here we are more capitalist.
Since most people don't really understand what all that means either way, we get these notions about what role the government plays in our lives, and for some the belief is that just about any role of government beyond the bare minimum is bad. It's not quite that cut-and-dry for me but don't get me started!
All I know is that in the many ways I enjoy a quality of life here in America, I have also enjoyed just as much in Europe. I think for most people who are lucky like me to enjoy a quality life, above basic sustenance levels, Europe certainly has lots to offer as well. For those not so lucky, I surely don't know if those Americans are any more free than those Europeans.
One last observation; places like San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Paris, London and Rome are all spots where middle-class citizens all the way up to the uber-wealthy like to spend their time, vacation, live. Of course there are all the other incredible spots where the food is good, the ability to get about very free, and the beauty beyond words, like Lake Tahoe, Yosemite, Big Sur, Sedona, Hawaii, Charleston, Jackson Hole, New Orleans, Cape Cod..., in Europe you have Athens, the French Wine Country, Lake Como, Florence, Venice, the Cotswalds, the Black Forest, the Rhine, Zurich..., too many incredible places to enjoy and feel "free!"
Not sure by what measure we might gauge our freedom along these lines, but access to these sorts of incredible places to enjoy a good walk, meal and whatever else, has surely got to factor somehow, and in this respect, Europe certainly has no less going for it than the United States.
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