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Old 01-30-2016, 04:08 PM
 
15,862 posts, read 6,934,648 times
Reputation: 8519

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadgates View Post
Perhaps if YOU actually looked it up, then you WOULD know how we compare.

THEN you would see that with the exception of many inner cities, the US is on par with much of Europe.

What is your source for such confidence?
THEN you wouldn't need to feel so afraid unless you actually lived in one of those inner cities.
We do not live in an island in the suburbs or rural America. when children die of gun shot it affects all of us. guns travel from inner cities, to subrubia, to rural farmland looking for the innocent you. be afraid. be very afraid.
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Old 01-30-2016, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,843,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
We do not live in an island in the suburbs or rural America. when children die of gun shot it affects all of us. guns travel from inner cities, to subrubia, to rural farmland looking for the innocent you. be afraid. be very afraid.
Statistics show a white man who ain't involved with drugs is about as safe from being murdered as the typical European with the same characteristics. Be afraid of that cheeseburger, not guns.

Hard to find stats but a middle class law abiding black man living in a decent area I will bet is about equally safe
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Old 01-30-2016, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,851 posts, read 2,288,205 times
Reputation: 4546
The US Constitution is quickly becoming just a piece of toilet paper. I am not sure we're any more "free" than anyone else.
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Old 01-30-2016, 05:53 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,337 posts, read 26,421,493 times
Reputation: 11335
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
We do not live in an island in the suburbs or rural America. when children die of gun shot it affects all of us. guns travel from inner cities, to subrubia, to rural farmland looking for the innocent you. be afraid. be very afraid.
Yeah just a minute ago a gun walked out of my gun safe on its own two legs and tried to hurt me. We need a law to outlaw any gun that's not an inanimate object. All these guns are just running around, you can't turn your back on them for a minute.
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Old 01-30-2016, 06:54 PM
 
Location: No Mask For Me This Time, Either
5,647 posts, read 5,068,241 times
Reputation: 6054
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
if you are always afraid some nut with a gun might shoot and kill you or your kids or the police can stop you and pull you out of the car and taser you - well that is not freedom, is it?

So if the nut with a gun has his taken away, then yours will be taken away also. But I'll bet you believe the police will protect you, right? But if the police guns and tasers are taken away, and perhaps they're given whistles like the English police, then what? That leaves criminals in possession of all the guns and doing pretty much what criminals do. Is that freedom?
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Old 01-30-2016, 09:52 PM
 
15,862 posts, read 6,934,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
So if the nut with a gun has his taken away, then yours will be taken away also. But I'll bet you believe the police will protect you, right? But if the police guns and tasers are taken away, and perhaps they're given whistles like the English police, then what? That leaves criminals in possession of all the guns and doing pretty much what criminals do. Is that freedom?
If possession of a gun is your only safety then you are not living in a very free place.
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Old 01-31-2016, 04:49 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,665,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeminoleTom View Post
This is my first time at the political forum so please bear with me. I'm asking this question to learn because as of now ive lived a shelter life when it comes to happenings around the globe.


One thing I'm interested in is I always hear conservatives say "vote for us-- keep your freedoms... otherwise we will end up like Western Europe". I then go read an article or look at the news on line and it would appear most people from England, France, Spain, Germany, etc are "free". They go to work, school, have families-- doesn't seem much different than what we do here in the states. So what freedoms do Americans have that folks in those other countries don't? I know guns is one-- but they still hunt in England? So can someone please help me understand? I need specifics....

Finally, I know there is A LOT of fear mongering out there. The quote above may just be that-- I don't know. Liberals are guilty at that as well....

Thanks
In America it is common for our uneducated rednecks to assume all liberty is negative liberty, and that positive liberty is "socialism."

Sort of how they think liberal and leftist mean the same thing. The United States basically has its own political vocabulary that is absurd to most other countries.
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Old 01-31-2016, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,649,774 times
Reputation: 24860
As much as the RWNJ (right wing nut jobs) cry for ever more entrepreneurial freedom they are the first to use the bankruptcy laws to protect their individual savings at the expense of their stockholders and lenders. They also decry that the government should never take care of individual people but should always protect big business from competition or the market from monopoly. Socialism for the connected and wealthy is OK but aid for the poor is decried because it shrinks the pie available for them.

I have had several product ideas over the years but, without some form of support to pay for me and my wife's housing health care and food, I have never had the time to make the effort to bring these to market. It is easy to be an entrepreneur if you have financial backing from your family or financial backer.

As far as the differences between my position on gun control and what most European states consider reasonable is huge. I, like may Americans, believe that I have the responsibility to protect myself, my family, my friends and, possibly, complete strangers for criminal assault and violence. As the assailants most likely will be armed, legally or not, I strongly object to the government telling me weather I can have a firearm or not and what kind of gun I may carry. As the government will not and cannot protect me they have no right to leave me unarmed in a sometimes violent society.

The European countries both most of the people as well as most governments appear to fear firearms in the hands of regular people. These governments claim to be able to eliminate violent crime by disarming everyone. Most of the time most of the people believe them. Over the last couple of decades this has been shown to be a fiction. The European governments have failed to protect their people from mass murderers or individual rapists.

Allowing, hell, encouraging, individual citizens, especially women to own and carry guns is the only reasonable response to the flood uncontrolled murderous sexual perverts from the Arab states bringing violence to Europe. They should also eliminate the influx of anyone from these cultures even if the European industries need workers. There are plenty of Christian and other places where people can be imported to work in the factories.

In summary I like Europe's economic system that takes good care of most people but cannot abide their illusion that Europe of anywhere else can protect people from violent crime.
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Old 01-31-2016, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,668 posts, read 5,473,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The European governments have failed to protect their people from mass murderers or individual rapists.
There are no mass murders or rapists in the U.S.? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,299 posts, read 2,343,568 times
Reputation: 1227
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
There are no mass murders or rapists in the U.S.? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
No government can stop mass murders or rapists. His point is that the Europeans/those who condemn gun rights are relying solely on their authority figures to protect them from anyone who would do evil things. They want to take guns out of the hands of citizens and hope that their government will be the good guy who stops bad things from happening, which they can't do because they're only human.

I think that's kind of a child's mentality, looking to the adult to take care of them, and then they have the nerve to mock anyone who wants the ability to defend themselves and their loved ones. To add to that, you're trusting politicians and their enforcers to not do anything bad to you when they have a monopoly on deadly weapons? I think that's even worse.
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