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Old 02-11-2016, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,781,772 times
Reputation: 28561

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Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
It's not an easy problem to solve. But I think it starts with our education system. For the most part comapnies feel justified because they feel that not enough Americans are taking all of these tech jobs. And they would be right actually. When you work in tech, you're not very likely to work with a lot of other Americans, unless you're working in a small startup environment. The reality is that nearly 80-90% of your team mates will be foreign born. In my last job I was on a team of 25. Out of that number, only 3 of us were actually born in the USA. 2 were born in other countries but came to America at an early age. The rest were foreign born and were all in the USA on some sort of visa sponsorship. And 1 was an actual USA citizen from India who came to America as an adult.

This is not uncommon in most tech fields or departments. So we have to ask ourselves, why aren't Americans showing interest in tech. Or maybe they do, but it's much harder for them to compete with offshore talent. People like me with a lot of experience are USUALLY ok. And just for the record, I'm a black male. But someone entering the field from the USA typically is going to have a rough time without any real connections or nepotism.

So I think the core remains our education system. We don't really encourage children to go into STEM. As evidence in the shoddy way our public schools teach most hard sciences, which is more about memory than analytical thinking.


It's the same way in India and China. The actual difference is that their culture encourages them to enter tech to escape poverty. So many do this in hopes of changing their fortunes.

It's a huge problem all the way around, and it's not fair to H1B holders or American tech workers.
Actually you should count yourself as "lucky" you are getting foreign born people. There is a reason people are complaining San Francisco is full of tech bros. Unicorn startups are pretty much universally white and male. My company is about 75% male and 70% white. 75% under 30. Asian people are overwhelmingly in accounting. And some are in data science. IT is mostly Asian. The Product and engineering team is mostly white guys under 30. Senior leadership team is all male except for a recent new hire. 85% of leadership is white male. 75% are under 35.

I am one of the oldest people at my company. And one of a handful of black faces. The black people are evenly gender split. There are a few more Latinos, but not many. There are barely more south Asians than black people - and you know to stereotype there should be a lot more. They are also rare on the product and engineering teams.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
5,281 posts, read 6,571,262 times
Reputation: 4405
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Actually you should count yourself as "lucky" you are getting foreign born people. There is a reason people are complaining San Francisco is full of tech bros. Unicorn startups are pretty much universally white and male. My company is about 75% male and 70% white. 75% under 30. Asian people are overwhelmingly in accounting. And some are in data science. IT is mostly Asian. The Product and engineering team is mostly white guys under 30. Senior leadership team is all male except for a recent new hire. 85% of leadership is white male. 75% are under 35.

I am one of the oldest people at my company. And one of a handful of black faces. The black people are evenly gender split. There are a few more Latinos, but not many. There are barely more south Asians than black people - and you know to stereotype there should be a lot more. They are also rare on the product and engineering teams.
At startup companies it's mostly white. In most large corporations it's a hell of a lot more diverse. And people forget that large companies make up way larger portion of the tech workforce than startups.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,781,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
You are incorrect. The field of technology is called IT. IT can be analogous with Finance. It's an umbrella term that can be many many many different teams. Typically in organizations most tech talent report to the CTO, but this isn't always the case.

Software Engineering is apart of IT. They are not different things. IT is just a more more general term to designate a specific domain or profession. The confusion comes from the use of IT. For example from the perspective of mostly business or sales people you hear the term "IT staff", which is usually some sort of desktop support person.

In most organizations software engineers and desktop support will at some point report to a CTO, but clearly their reporting structure is completely different.
Not exactly. There is a reason the term IT has fallen out of favor to describe "tech" business. Tech no,obey has invaded everything. Apple is not an IT company: they are consumer products. Facebook is not an IT company: it is a communications platform (and increasingly an identity management system). We call Comcast a cable company, but they are developing a lot of tech. So are broadcast media complies these days.

The world has outgrown the term IT because software / and information systems are everywhere -infrastructure, communications, appliances, consumer goods......
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,781,772 times
Reputation: 28561
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
At startup companies it's mostly white. In most large corporations it's a hell of a lot more diverse. And people forget that large companies make up way larger portion of the tech workforce than startups.
Yes, but since startups are driving new economic growth, and most Americans work at small companies historically, it is important to solve the diversity problem at the early stages instead of backfilling. Culture is defined at the beginning and can't be changed easily later. And obviously the biggest potential for wealth creation is in the early stages.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
5,281 posts, read 6,571,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Not exactly. There is a reason the term IT has fallen out of favor to describe "tech" business. Tech no,obey has invaded everything. Apple is not an IT company: they are consumer products. Facebook is not an IT company: it is a communications platform (and increasingly an identity management system). We call Comcast a cable company, but they are developing a lot of tech. So are broadcast media complies these days.

The world has outgrown the term IT because software / and information systems are everywhere -infrastructure, communications, appliances, consumer goods......

IT denotes the technology profession. It does not elude to a specific domain. Facebook is not an IT company. You're correct. It's a social media company. Just like a bank isn't a fiance company. Or no company is actually just a sales company.

You're mixing terminology. IT is a general term which describe people who work in tech. So yes software engineers and desktop support are in the sake field. They have very different focuses with different skillets. But they are both IT.

There is no confusion here. Non tech people are confused about the terms
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
5,281 posts, read 6,571,262 times
Reputation: 4405
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Yes, but since startups are driving new economic growth, and most Americans work at small companies historically, it is important to solve the diversity problem at the early stages instead of backfilling. Culture is defined at the beginning and can't be changed easily later. And obviously the biggest potential for wealth creation is in the early stages.
Start-ups are not the driving force in economic growth. Large companies trying to keep up with tech are a driving force. Most start-ups rarely turn a profit. Most big companies are actually using technology and making money from it.


Not every startup is a Facebook story. Pretty sure you can avoid the startup world altogether and will be mostly OK. Engineer from start-ups also pick up a lot of bad habits such as over complicating designs, writing untestable code, and not employing best practices.


I've inherited small company code basis. It's code that would never be acceptable at something like a big bank for example.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,781,772 times
Reputation: 28561
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
IT denotes the technology profession. It does not elude to a specific domain. Facebook is not an IT company. You're correct. It's a social media company. Just like a bank isn't a fiance company. Or no company is actually just a sales company.

You're mixing terminology. IT is a general term which describe people who work in tech. So yes software engineers and desktop support are in the sake field. They have very different focuses with different skillets. But they are both IT.

There is no confusion here. Non tech people are confused about the terms
I know lots of software engineers/developers. And zero call themselves IT workers. Could be a region or generation gap..but I haven't heard IT worker for well over a decade.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
5,281 posts, read 6,571,262 times
Reputation: 4405
Start-ups are good for trying new ideas. But a lot of big companies are as well, and testing it against established and existing customer basis. You mentioned Comcast. I actually just left Comcast after working with then for 2 years. They are pretty up to date on technology and practices. You'd be shocked at how important innovation is foe big companies bottomlines.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
5,281 posts, read 6,571,262 times
Reputation: 4405
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I know lots of software engineers/developers. And zero call themselves IT workers. Could be a region or generation gap..but I haven't heard IT worker for well over a decade.
Again because IT is the name of the industry. Nobody call themselves a fiance worker either. Because many different professions exist under the finance umbrella. The same thing with IT.

I've never called myself an IT worker either. I work as a software engineer. And have done so for 15 years. I would only say IT to someone non technical because it's a term they would understand.

It's also not regional. I worked in Silicon Valley as late as 2014. And worked in Seattle and DC before that so I've had a cup of coffee in multiple tech hot-spot cities.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,781,772 times
Reputation: 28561
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
Start-ups are good for trying new ideas. But a lot of big companies are as well, and testing it against established and existing customer basis. You mentioned Comcast. I actually just left Comcast after working with then for 2 years. They are pretty up to date on technology and practices. You'd be shocked at how important innovation is foe big companies bottomlines.
I am not surprised. But it takes a lot of effort to move a titanic. Not all big companies are setup to be agile and innovate. Sometimes they just build a startup inside.

I think the next few years are going to be critical for big tech giants. Some huge names will not make it because they are too slovenly. They will shrink a lot.

There isn't much need for big enterprise software / hardware anymore. As these things go into their replacement cycles there won't be many target customers left for anything that is not infrastructure. There is little need for tons of IT infrastructure nice for commodity tech: email, collaboration, communication, finance, customer databases, customer support, and ERP software are almost commodities now. When you don't need to his t your own systems in your data center you need less servers/storage/networking. Since everyone is on wifi you need way fewer routers/switches for typical employees....
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