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Old 02-07-2016, 12:39 AM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,093,598 times
Reputation: 2037

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Sure-

That is why the founding fathers supported-

1. gun control
2. the welfare state
3. government healthcare
4. income taxes
5. hatred of Christianity
6. political correctness
7. gay marriage
8. global warming
9. cap and trage
10 WIC



revolutionary does not mean "liberal"
...because most of those issues were relevant in the 18th century?


: smack:
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:15 AM
 
28,620 posts, read 18,658,429 times
Reputation: 30899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Revolutionary is far beyond liberal.

The founders were breaking all ties to traditional governance.
Remember that the right-wing masses of today are using a lexicon churned out by folks like Rush Limbaugh. They do not know or care to know the real meaning and history of social concepts.

Most don't know that 100 years ago, Republicans were proud to call themselves "Progressives" and were the leaders of women's rights, labor rights, and racial justice.
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:47 AM
 
8,593 posts, read 9,087,324 times
Reputation: 5925
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm4 View Post
They were the National (as in NPR) German Socialist Workers Party.

"Workers" parties--and ones that add "Socialist" for emphasis--are in fact socialist. As are the people who show up at the porch of a function with the words "socialist workers" scribbled above the doorbell.

Next you'll claim Obama isn't a progressive too. The left should admit to and own up to its 'mistakes' throughout history.
Both nationalist (right wing) and Socialist (left) was used in its name to draw both political persuasions into the fold. Brilliant propaganda by the Nazi regime. Social democrats were eliminated by the thousands when Hitler gained full power. He was a fascist dictator.

Last edited by jmking; 02-07-2016 at 07:58 AM..
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Old 02-07-2016, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 4,080,009 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Sure-

That is why the founding fathers supported-

1. gun control
2. the welfare state
3. government healthcare
4. income taxes
5. hatred of Christianity
6. political correctness
7. gay marriage
8. global warming
9. cap and trage
10 WIC



revolutionary does not mean "liberal"
See, I either have to insult your intelligence here or assume you just didn't read most of the posts. As an act of kindness, I'll assume it's the latter because you obviously missed the dozens of explanations that the term liberal, in the way that it's most used, is very vague and frankly mostly meaningless.

If we stick to a liberal vs conservative narrative and reduce both definitions the most most bare definitions available, liberalism is the party of change and conservatism is the party of sustenance. Liberals see a need to make changes to improve the conditions and conservatives feel things are fine the way they are. There is good and bad to both. Good liberalism is something like freeing the slaves and good conservatism is continuing to support a democratic process as it good of that outweighs the bad. The opposite here would be something like liberals creating a wealth redistribution plan that allows everyone technically equal pay, but the government gets to keep a huge portion (bad liberalism) or conservatives defending a corrupt statesman simply because he has been in office long enough and done good things (bad conservatism).

Interestingly enough, for the bad ones, neither a liberal or conservative would consider those just actions. Which is sensible enough. Again, this is because liberal and conservative are meant to represent opposing sides, and aren't actually clean cut ideologies.

The founding fathers were liberal. This does not mean they were modern democrats. Reread (or read for the first time I hope) all the responses that explain that. If in doing so you still think the way you do, then you are lost and no one can help you.
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,425 posts, read 23,999,031 times
Reputation: 32728
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Sure-

That is why the founding fathers supported-

1. gun control
2. the welfare state
3. government healthcare
4. income taxes
5. hatred of Christianity
6. political correctness
7. gay marriage
8. global warming
9. cap and trage
10 WIC



revolutionary does not mean "liberal"
Times change. Conservatives don't. I'm surprised you don't all run around wearing powdered wigs.
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Old 02-07-2016, 04:58 PM
 
28,620 posts, read 18,658,429 times
Reputation: 30899
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Times change. Conservatives don't.
That's a grammatical truism, isn't it?
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Old 02-07-2016, 08:27 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,634 posts, read 14,895,322 times
Reputation: 15934
Quote:
Originally Posted by viribusunitis View Post
Eh... Nice rant, but have you ever heard of John Locke? A guy living in the 1600s? Doesn't look like it.
Of course.

This thread is bogus and a major FAIL.
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:37 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,416,511 times
Reputation: 14266
Speaking of insane minds... I have a theory about the underpinnings of this thread...
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:48 AM
 
30,011 posts, read 18,571,468 times
Reputation: 20790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Revolutionary is far beyond liberal.

The founders were breaking all ties to traditional governance.

....... So you cannot explain the above. Of course not, as our founding fathers were as far from the modern liberal as one can get.

Modern liberalism is the spawn of Joseph Stalin.

Conservativism has its roots in Jefferson.

It is not surprising that liberal policy seeks to:

1. reduce personal freedoms by more regulations and increased government

2. reduce economic freedom by higher taxes

3. reduce 1st, 2nd, 9th and 10th amendment rights

4. supports PC language to suppress opposition rhetoric

5. Support of "fairness doctrine" to suppress opposition rhetoric

6. Support of massive illegal immigration (in opposition to federal law) to weaken the nation

7. destroy the church, as it is an impediment to the state

8. destory the family unit, as the state serves that role

9. destroy the middle class via NAFTA, China trade status, and pacific rim trade agreements

10. perpetuation of the welfare state to create a permanent slave class of democrats
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:54 AM
 
28,620 posts, read 18,658,429 times
Reputation: 30899
It would blow some people's minds to read Teddy Roosevelt's 1912 "Bull Moose" speech. He hits every "liberal Progressive" bullet point except LGBT. Labor rights, women's rights, racial justice--it's all in there.
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