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Israel's policy towards the Palestinians can be summarised as using both disproportionate brutal force and "the law" to suppress any resistance to its illegal occupation and as a means of encouraging the Palestinians to leave. It uses many instruments to achieve this. One of these is house demolitions for those it accuses of either committing "terrorist acts" or building without a permit.
The most recent example of this was the demolition of 23 homes in the "firing zone area 918" in the West Bank. This made 100 people homeless.
Both methods are applied particularly harshly to the Palestinians in Jerusalem. Families whose relatives are killed by Israel immediately after attacks on Israelis or subsequently, suffer the double pain of losing their loved ones and then their homes. Further pain is achieved by withholding the bodies of those lost relatives for long periods and when they are eventually released, imposing what the families see as humiliating conditions on their funerals to avoid "celebrations" of their attacks and "martyrdom".
Another is the use of administrative detention. Israel can simply hold anyone indefinitely using this instrument. A request to military courts for renewal of the six monthly stints is almost always approved. The detainee and his/her lawyers are not privy to the reasons for the detention. Palestinians detained under this law have resorted to hunger strikes that have lasted for weeks and even months. The most recent was journalist Mohammed Al-Qiq whose detention order was suspended on 4 February, 2016 due to his poor health after 72 days on hunger strike. His response was to reject the suspension and to continue his hunger strike.
Israel has also used forced exile either of Palestinians from Jerusalem to the West Bank or from the West Bank to Gaza. Following the Church of the Nativity siege in 2002, a number of the captives were exiled to Gaza or countries outside Palestine for fixed periods, but Israel has reneged on the terms of this exile in a number of cases.
The Palestinians Israel has treated most brutally are undoubtedly those under siege in Gaza. Not only has it placed 1.8 million people under a permanent siege which has deprived them of any semblance of a dignified or normal life, it has launched repeated attacks since its troops redeployed to the edge of the enclave which have heaped death, injury and destruction on the beleaguered people and infrastructure.
When Palestinians exercise their right to resist they are accused of terrorism, including bizarrely "political terror" for joining the International Criminal Court and seeking to bring Israeli leaders to justice for suspected war crimes.
I can answer most if not all these questions. In many cases I feel I already have in one way or another, but clearly we don't agree about some very basic fundamentals which makes your choice questions just a detour I'm not so inclined to waste more time entertaining. Given what I have read of this back-and-forth, at this point I am certainly asking myself why I should spend still more time to answer still more questions that YOU view as perhaps important to you.
Why not instead find some middle/neutral ground and share what others think? World leaders, for example, rather than C-D posters who always think they know better than everyone else including those world leaders. I am sure you do, but frankly, with all due respect, your opinion (nor mine) matters quite as much on the world stage.
Nevertheless, if I can't even get understanding or agreement as to a better manner of exchange, I tell you what..., please answer your question as it relates to me, and I'll bother some more.
What do I get out of answering your questions?
You deflect. You redirect. You lecture. You condescend. But you still didn't offer an answer to the most ridiculously basic question: What does Israel get out of it?
It doesn't matter what anyone else has to say. Not the UN. Not the USA. Not the EU. Not the Arabs. If something is not in the best interests of the nation of Israel, then Israel won't do it. That is not me taking their side. That is just insanely obvious. For example, I'm not going to go to work 40 hours a week for free. I'm going to insist that I get something for my trouble. The USA isn't going to give California, Arizona, Utah, Texas, Colorado and Nevada back to Mexico. Why? It's not in our nations best interests to do so. The American people would throw a fit if we tried. Any President and Congress who did that wouldn't have time to get impeached. Americans would lynch them so fast, there wouldn't be time.
That is the big issue you're completely ignoring. For Israel to just hand a bunch of territory back, they've got to convince their own people that it's a good idea.
What do you get for answer the question? Credibility. Presently, you have none. You just keep running in circles, quoting the same sources and parroting the same information. I myself and others have tried to engage you in looking more deeply into the Israel/Palestine issue. You don't seem to want to look at it closely. You seem content to let the UN, Jimmy Carter and various IhateIsrael.com sources spoon-feed your opinion to you. What I keep looking for and failing to find is you thinking for yourself. Analyzing the present situation and discussing it. That sort of thing. Instead, you just brush around the edges and tell everyone what the UN General Secretary or Jimmy Carter think. It's like I've made the first move in a game of chess, it's your move and you refuse to make your move. It's a bit of a letdown.
I actually do see and carefully consider both sides of the conflict. I feel terrible for the Palestinians. I really do. But diplomacy 101 = both sides need to feel they've actually gained something. Unless the Palestinians can offer something substantive, Israel isn't going to play ball. That's just common sense. Any two-state solution must begin by answering the question, "What are both Palestine and Israel gonna get?"
Because France believes they should buffalo Israel into a bad deal.
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Why do the Palestinians get the support they do from others if Israeli policy is so well justified?
This is the million dollar question. I believe their is not one single answer to answer the question. There is allot of pressure in Europe to promote Anti-Israel policies, such as protests and an increased muslim population. IMO, much of it is to appease the Arab nations as well as detracting future terrorist attacks on its home soil.
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Why is even the U.S. lately trying to signal to the Israelis that the U.S. can't continue to support Israel in the U.N. as it has in the past...?
Source? United States - Israel alliance is not going anywhere.
Your turn.
How does Israel negotiate peace with a body that see's Zionism as an invader on Islamic lands?
Because France believes they should buffalo Israel into a bad deal.
This is the million dollar question. I believe their is not one single answer to answer the question. There is allot of pressure in Europe to promote Anti-Israel policies, such as protests and an increased muslim population. IMO, much of it is to appease the Arab nations as well as detracting future terrorist attacks on its home soil.
Source? United States - Israel alliance is not going anywhere.
Your turn.
How does Israel negotiate peace with a body that see's Zionism as an invader on Islamic lands?
It is much worse. The tension, suspicion and hatred reached such level that no dialogue is possible. Who can negotiate in the name of the Palestinians? Who speaks for them or eventually make any concessions if necessary? Will the Israelis (that feel terrorised and threatened on personal level) believe any promise made by Palestinians? The anxiety level is such, that they will not agree to anything.
France (like all EU) are totally detached from the reality in the middle east. They may recognise independent Palestine, but it will remain on paper - purely declarative.
Contrary to what many believe, Palestinians do not really desire a state in the west bank. At most, it can be a stepping stone. In addition to the EU, only Abbas supports that. (Its something to elevate his personal status and maybe provide some work to the unemployed). Hammas, Hisbullah and other independent fractions, will only accept a total eradication of the Jewish state.
You deflect. You redirect. You lecture. You condescend.
You forgot that I also tried to suggest a better manner in which to present different perspectives about this problem while trying to avoid the personal focus you appear to prefer, and as you do much of all the same things you accuse me of doing, all the while only offering YOUR questions and YOUR point of view rather than those of others worthy of note, tells us much I think. That you can also dismiss all the other points of view that I have continued to share and supplement, tells us plenty more as well. Oy vey! If these opinions don't matter, why bother with mine???
Here is another point of view that you can sweep aside in the same way, but gets old..., don't you think?
Jan 18, 2016
United States Ambassador to Israel Dan Shapiro voiced nearly unprecedented criticism against Israel's settlements in the West Bank on Monday. Shapiro praised progress made in the investigation into the arson-murder in the Palestinian village of Duma, but emphasized the inadequate response by Israeli authorities to settler violence against Palestinians.
Speaking at the Institute for National Security Studies (INSS) conference in Tel Aviv, Shapiro said "Too much Israeli vigilantism in the West Bank goes on unchecked," adding that "there is a lack of thorough investigations… at times it seems Israel has two standards of adherence to rule of law in the West Bank - one for Israelis and one for Palestinians."
Shapiro added that the two-state solution is the only way to prevent Israel from turning into a bi-national state, and said a way must be found to preserve its viability. He noted that the American administration is "concerned and perplexed" in wake of the Israeli government's policy on the settlements, "which raise questions about Israeli intentions."*
YITZHAK RABIN’S SON: ISRAEL MUST MAKE CONCESSIONS NOW FOR PEACE
“Peace has to be negotiated with our enemies,” Yuval Rabin said. If Israel does not deal with Hamas now, it will soon have Islamic State on its border.
Rabin was the guest speaker Oct. 14 at a Montreal event to mark the approaching 20th anniversary of the Israeli prime minister’s assassination, sponsored by Canadian Friends of Peace Now and the Labor Zionist Circle, in co-operation with the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs.
Rabin, a high-tech businessman, is chair and co-founder of the Israel Peace Initiative (IPI), which in 2011 released an alternative proposal for achieving a two-state solution. As the name suggests, IPI believes Israel should once again take the lead in securing its future and not just react to external threats, which Rabin believes is the case now.
He said Israel must be prepared to concede the West Bank and the Arab sections of Jerusalem, as well as lift the blockade on Gaza and give up claim to the Temple Mount, if it is to have lasting peace, and survive as a Jewish state.
For example, I'm not going to go to work 40 hours a week for free. I'm going to insist that I get something for my trouble.
Another approach that might work, or at least help, is this you attempt by way of analogy. Let me try a bit of the same, because I think it might help establish why all your set of assumptions and questions are not necessarily to be accepted in the way you wish. Here we go...
Say you are born and raised in a humble home next to mine, and say there is a very large tall tree on your property just on the other side of the fence that divides our two properties. Say I knock on your front door one day and explain that tree was originally part of my property, a significant part of my family heritage, in fact that tree happens to have deep long-term spiritual meaning to my family, and we would simply like to have more access to it, be able to spend time around it, in it...
You tell me you are somewhat aware of that history, but don't really think any of that changes our property lines or the fact that the tree now belongs to your family. You further explain that you aren't too keen in any case about my family hanging out in that tree for a variety of reasons, including the fact that the branches are right outside your bedroom window.
Say I leave your front door with a thank you, and I go back to my side of the fence where I put up a ladder and use it to climb into that tree over the fence. Then lets say you also notice the sound of hammering as I begin building the first deck of the tree house I have in mind to construct and spend time in.
Now, surely this analogy is better than the one you offer above for the purpose of illustration here, but regardless how good an analogy mine may be in your opinion...
Do please answer THIS simple fundamental question, what would you do about me building in that tree?
Why do the Palestinians get the support they do from others if Israeli policy is so well justified?
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Originally Posted by BMoreJuice
This is the million dollar question. I believe their is not one single answer to answer the question. There is allot of pressure in Europe to promote Anti-Israel policies, such as protests and an increased muslim population. IMO, much of it is to appease the Arab nations as well as detracting future terrorist attacks on its home soil.
Answer couldn't possibly be something else? Anything else? Nothing else???
Obama: Stalled Peace Process Makes It Harder for U.S. to Defend Israel at UN
In interview with Israeli TV, Obama hints at possibility that U.S. won't veto French resolution on ending Israeli-Palestinian conflict at UN Security Council.
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The questions game...
