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LearnMe, you might as well give up. You have not been able to rebutt anything Godofthunder or Northeastah said. It's obvious that they both have a better grasp of the situation there, and at least one has lived there. Have you ever visited Israel or lived there, or is this just something you got outraged about in college?
By the way, the really fundamental question you didn't bother answering: Why is Israel "a special problem of particular uniqueness"? You're skipping over and/or cherry picking my posts and only responding to what you feel comfortable responding to, but I think that one deserves an answer.
--> It's not nor should it be. They are more than capable of taking care of themselves but of course if the US ignores them or acts in a way that is at odds with their existing leadership we get a personnel address by Bibi to the Republican led Congress along with a standing ovation - in what other country could this happen ?
The past two decades of US Foreign Policy in the middle east has only resulted in widespread hate from first the Shiites, then the Sunnis and now Israel. Technology and green energy has lead oil to be far less important a strategic issue than 25 years ago. We no longer need to "guarantee" our oil supplies through foreign aid backed by the US Military. Time to move on and focus on a better domestic policy.
Okay so you're saying that Israel is not a unique special case like LearnMe insists that they are. In that case, I'm still waiting for LearnMe to answer since they're the one making that ridiculous claim.
Quote:
They are more than capable of taking care of themselves but of course if the US ignores them or acts in a way that is at odds with their existing leadership we get a personnel address by Bibi to the Republican led Congress along with a standing ovation - in what other country could this happen?
Well, it's not exactly on-topic. Should Israel take care of themselves? Sure. So should everyone else we're giving foreign aid to. Israel will be just fine without us pumping a few billion dollars a year in their direction -- as long as we're not giving money to their enemies either of course.
But that's not the topic at hand here, is it? We're talking about Israel. Israel can retaliate against Hamas or Hezbollah and kill 50 people. The world will have a conniption fit. All of Europe and Africa and Asia and most of all the Middle East will be outraged. Meanwhile, Syria can massacre 3000 of its own citizens in a single go and the world barely notices. Presently, 470,000 Syrians have died in the ongoing war, most of them innocent civilians who were intentionally targeted. Sudanese paramilitary groups continue to slaughter ethnic Christians and they've already murdered nearly 2 million. The wider world could care less. Turkey occupies half the island of Cyprus because the Cypriot people wanted to become part of Greece and Turkey didn't like that. The world doesn't care one bit. The Coptic Christians in Egypt numbering as many as 10 million people are routinely kicked around and abused by the Muslim majority, yet there is not even the slightest hint of demands for a separate independent Coptic state.
The topic at hand is that the world seems to have a special set of rules by which Israel must play. We expect Muslims to ruthlessly and brutally kill each other and Israelis because we have ultra-low expectations of them. This is hypocritical and wrong. The Muslims around Israel should have to live by the same rules that the wider world is trying to impose upon the Israelis. Why is this not the case?
Okay so you're saying that Israel is not a unique special case like LearnMe insists that they are. In that case, I'm still waiting for LearnMe to answer since they're the one making that ridiculous claim.
Well, it's not exactly on-topic. Should Israel take care of themselves? Sure. So should everyone else we're giving foreign aid to. Israel will be just fine without us pumping a few billion dollars a year in their direction -- as long as we're not giving money to their enemies either of course.
But that's not the topic at hand here, is it? We're talking about Israel. Israel can retaliate against Hamas or Hezbollah and kill 50 people. The world will have a conniption fit. All of Europe and Africa and Asia and most of all the Middle East will be outraged. Meanwhile, Syria can massacre 3000 of its own citizens in a single go and the world barely notices. Presently, 470,000 Syrians have died in the ongoing war, most of them innocent civilians who were intentionally targeted. Sudanese paramilitary groups continue to slaughter ethnic Christians and they've already murdered nearly 2 million. The wider world could care less. Turkey occupies half the island of Cyprus because the Cypriot people wanted to become part of Greece and Turkey didn't like that. The world doesn't care one bit. The Coptic Christians in Egypt numbering as many as 10 million people are routinely kicked around and abused by the Muslim majority, yet there is not even the slightest hint of demands for a separate independent Coptic state.
The topic at hand is that the world seems to have a special set of rules by which Israel must play. We expect Muslims to ruthlessly and brutally kill each other and Israelis because we have ultra-low expectations of them. This is hypocritical and wrong. The Muslims around Israel should have to live by the same rules that the wider world is trying to impose upon the Israelis. Why is this not the case?
"The soft bigotry of low expectations."
The phrase was made famous by George Bush in describing the underperformance of African Americans in schools. If the teachers and administrators expect less of them, they are going to meet their expectations. If we don't expect more from them, how much effort are we going to put into improving them, and how much effort will they put into improving themselves?
The phrase couldn't be more appropriate here. We expect Muslims to be barbaric. They are not held to the same standards as the civilized world, so when they murder innocent people, the world shrugs it off. When a civilized country kills people, even collateral damage in the course of defending themselves, the world is up in arms. But the problem is, until we start holding Muslims to the same standards as everyone else, they will continue with their barbarism.
Most Jews, including most "zionists" believe in a two state solution. Two countries living side by side in Peace. Don't take my word for it. All one needs to do, is look at the history of the conflict. Most Palestinians believe in a one state solution. One that doesn't include Israel. And THAT is the one and only barrier that needs to be overcome if we ever want an end to this conflict.
The middle east has been a psychotic sewer of mindless violence since before written records existed.
It's the region's most salient characteristic.
"The world" thinks they should grow up and become civilized.
Doesn't appear the middle east is paying attention to that concern.
The world may well "think" that, but they don't expect it. Especially people on the left. Any time someone calls them out on their "culture", people come out of the woodwork to defend them.
In other words, political expediency makes bad people doing bad things okay. Sure we wish they'd stop doing bad things, but we can't be bothered with that because it'd cost us oil or money, etc. You vented a tremendous amount of righteous indignation when you presumed (incorrectly) that I advocate for a "might makes right" worldview. Is a "wrong isn't really wrong if it's inconvenient" any better? But I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you don't actually think political and financial expediency should change wrong to right.
I was already scratching my head plenty from all the comments yesterday, only to find plenty more this morning...
Can't imagine what I ever wrote that suggested "political expediency makes bad people doing bad things okay." I simply identify what wrong-doing in the world as I see it and then I do what I can to understand it. That exercise in no way condones the wrong-doing. On the contrary, in whatever way I can, I join the protest against that wrong-doing, as in this case related to what Israel has been doing.
As you know this is a conspiracy of a Cabal made up of the Masons, Illuminati, the Rothschilds, the Bilderberg Group, the Eskimos, the Greys, the Reptilians, the Fed, the Vatican, Satan, the Priory of Zion, the Rosencrutians, the French, etc.
Or in the words of another Jewish celebrity, "I object, your honor! This trial is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham."
By the way, the really fundamental question you didn't bother answering: Why is Israel "a special problem of particular uniqueness"? You're skipping over and/or cherry picking my posts and only responding to what you feel comfortable responding to, but I think that one deserves an answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katygirl68
LearnMe, you might as well give up. You have not been able to rebutt anything Godofthunder or Northeastah said. It's obvious that they both have a better grasp of the situation there, and at least one has lived there. Have you ever visited Israel or lived there, or is this just something you got outraged about in college?
Not sure who best to oblige here, but I certainly find godofthunder's request far more indicative of an intelligent interest over this snippy poking lob by katygirl, though in her own misguided way, she is probably right. I might as well give up, not because I am wrong, but because of the obvious bias that clouds judgement, as well displayed here.
I will get to godofthunder's request ASAP if the interest remains, but admittedly it is easier and less time-consuming for me to address the simpler comments. Like this last one here...
Where anyone lives should really NOT be any sort of determining factor when it comes to matters of public and/or foreign policy. What matters is what is right or wrong, and though some folks here seem to think I am some sort of lone critical voice regarding Israel, do please think again!
Anyone here been to Nigeria? Does that mean you can't be outraged by Boko Haram?
Please have mercy and/or take up your nonsense with someone your own size...
The world may well "think" that, but they don't expect it. Especially people on the left. Any time someone calls them out on their "culture", people come out of the woodwork to defend them.
I think "the world" kinda expects an area that likes to be referred to as "the cradle of civilization" to behave in a civilized manner.
But the world is continually disappointed.
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The world's hypocrisy in the Middle East
I'm trying...
