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Blaming lack of socialism (compulsory charity / wealth redistribution / slavery) instead of money madness is counter productive.
Wealth and money are not prosperity... Gilligan's Island scenario shows that. A millionaire on a deserted island, without anything to "buy" makes the money useless, worthless, and meaningless.
So WHO gives money meaning?
Prosperity exists independent of the money supply.
Prosperity is based on production , trade, and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services.
Only the "money mad" restrict trade to current monies- and thus strangle trade by the very scarce and finite monies.
Frankly, if poverty was caused by the "lack of money," why not give everyone 22 billion billion quatloos. Now no one ever "needs" money again.
Does that end poverty?
Of course not.
If no one needs money, why bother to work, sweat, farm, mine, transport, refine, manufacture, ship, display and sell? All that money is useless, worthless, and meaningless. Civilization thus collapses, despite everyone being “rich.”
Obviously, people need to be productive because that is what civilized people do - and “making money” is not productive - nor is redistribution of wealth (theft by government).
Massive money/debt creation had an enormous positive effect on a huge numbers of people's prosperity due to the economic/productive ramp up of WW2. The new money induced all the new productivity and prosperity since before the war many were idle and resources were sitting unused.
I guess it depends on your perspective. If you don't care about presidents asserting more power than the constitution laid out, those might be good presidents. All of them, even Washington with the Whiskey Rebellion, let the power get to their heads. They basically communicated that they were the president, and the people voted them in, so who cares what the constitution says about limited power?
I mentioned Tyler because he was the opposite, and I have a ton of respect for what he did.
Massive money/debt creation had an enormous positive effect on a huge numbers of people's prosperity due to the economic/productive ramp up of WW2. The new money induced all the new productivity and prosperity since before the war many were idle and resources were sitting unused.
During the war no one could buy anything so how do you figure war spending brought people out of poverty? Think about that for a second. People (mostly women) were forced to save the money they were making and that was getting sent home to them. Some invested in the war because there was nothing else to do with the money. Once the war was over and the soldiers came home they had tons of cash and new programs to help them get on their feet. All the sudden you see a boom in household appliances and housing starts... Anyways, that carried through for a while and gave New Dealers a sense of confidence that they knew what to do in all situations. As the money ran out the US was thrust right back into recession after recession and the answer was always the same. More inflation, those jobs will come back with more inflation. So that's what you got. Finally, the New Dealers were done and Reagan and conservatism had decades of failed Keynesian economics to blast dmocrats and the left with.
During the war no one could buy anything so how do you figure war spending brought people out of poverty? Think about that for a second. People (mostly women) were forced to save the money they were making and that was getting sent home to them. Some invested in the war because there was nothing else to do with the money. Once the war was over and the soldiers came home they had tons of cash and new programs to help them get on their feet. All the sudden you see a boom in household appliances and housing starts... Anyways, that carried through for a while and gave New Dealers a sense of confidence that they knew what to do in all situations. As the money ran out the US was thrust right back into recession after recession and the answer was always the same. More inflation, those jobs will come back with more inflation. So that's what you got. Finally, the New Dealers were done and Reagan and conservatism had decades of failed Keynesian economics to blast dmocrats and the left with.
Rationing helped the War Machine buy what it needed and reduced demands to help control inflation. The GDP of the USA was about doubled in a few short years early in the war. Most of that new money went into all the war related businesses and industries, and then out to all the workers, owners and shareholders in the private sector. Massive stimulus if there ever was one in the world!
The War Bond drive also helped with inflation as people would save instead of buy, reducing demands.
Lol, most popular? The things you learn on these boards.
He was a megalomaniac who would've loved to reign forever, and who concocted a loopy way to pack the SC with liberal judges. Thankfully, saner minds prevailed.
Rationing helped the War Machine buy what it needed and reduced demands to help control inflation.
Or price controls were used...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose
The GDP of the USA was about doubled in a few short years early in the war.
In five years the GNP more than doubled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose
Most of that new money went into all the war related businesses and industries, and then out to all the workers, owners and shareholders in the private sector. Massive stimulus if there ever was one in the world!
Which no one could spend. Pennies were being made of steel. People were being asked to save household fat and speed limits were imposed to save gas and tire wear. Most people couldn't spend money on anything and if they got a chance to they still wouldn't. They saved money by buying war bonds and putting their money into savings accounts. Still inflation went from near 0% to 15% from 1941 to 1945.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose
The War Bond drive also helped with inflation as people would save instead of buy, reducing demands.
Until the war was over. Then they all spent money finding and purchasing as many places to have sex as possible. Cars, homes, couches, washing machines, etc.
Lol, most popular? The things you learn on these boards.
He was a megalomaniac who would've loved to reign forever, and who concocted a loopy way to pack the SC with liberal judges. Thankfully, saner minds prevailed.
Not to mention an incestious adulterer. Just saying...
And your post was wrong. Anyone with a minute understanding of economics knows you cannot manipulated wages and prices and expect the economy to recover. You cannot take money out of the economy like FDR did and expect things to improve.
wow great job by FDR getting that rate down to 15 percent in 7 years. Hip Hip hurray America is saved.
Production for the war effort got us out of FDRs depression. He was an economic buffoon.
Ahem, FDR took office in March 1933, so insinuating that unemployment rose from 1930 to 1933 is hardly an indictment of FDR. The below two charts tell the story well. Once FDR took office, he instituted policies that improved the economy. On "not understanding economics," FDR had the leading economic minds on his team, like John Kenneth Galbraith.
I would contend that it is you that don't understand the economics of the depression. The main problem at the time was deflation -- prices fell sharply at the beginning of the Great Depression, when the economy was collapsing. This has a spiral effect -- wages drop, which lowers prices, which forces wages lower. Government instituting the minimum wage and price supports was indeed beneficial.
But stating that "Production for the war effort got us out of FDRs depression," is admitting that massive government stimulus lifts the economy. There is nothing magic about producing weapons that lifts the economy. It's the size of the expenditure.
I guess it depends on your perspective. If you don't care about presidents asserting more power than the constitution laid out, those might be good presidents. All of them, even Washington with the Whiskey Rebellion, let the power get to their heads. They basically communicated that they were the president, and the people voted them in, so who cares what the constitution says about limited power?
I mentioned Tyler because he was the opposite, and I have a ton of respect for what he did.
I really don't mind a president using their power to end slavery, win the Civil War or ending the Great Depression.
Ahem, FDR took office in March 1933, so insinuating that unemployment rose from 1930 to 1933 is hardly an indictment of FDR. The below two charts tell the story well. Once FDR took office, he instituted policies that improved the economy. On "not understanding economics," FDR had the leading economic minds on his team, like John Kenneth Galbraith.
I would contend that it is you that don't understand the economics of the depression. The main problem at the time was deflation -- prices fell sharply at the beginning of the Great Depression, when the economy was collapsing. This has a spiral effect -- wages drop, which lowers prices, which forces wages lower. Government instituting the minimum wage and price supports was indeed beneficial.
But stating that "Production for the war effort got us out of FDRs depression," is admitting that massive government stimulus lifts the economy. There is nothing magic about producing weapons that lifts the economy. It's the size of the expenditure.
...
Massive government spending while selling war materiel to Russia, China and GB. Also, it didn't hurt that you killed off the competition on a global scale. Massive government spending alone doesn't solve the problem which is why for 30 years after the war ended Keynesian economics failed miserably. Well, at least according the the historian of the federal reserve. I'm not sure what Paul "we miss stagflation" Krugman would say about all that. I'm guessing he would start drooling over the Phillips curve or something though...
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