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I was talking about finding a cure. I never said cigarettes save lives. It's puzzling that you interpreted my post that way. We need to find out why we have such a gun culture and why there's so much vio lence.
There is a difference between gun culture and gun violence. We actually have a very healthy gun culture in this country, and that is separate from the crime culture that lead to gun violence.
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Exactly. I don't know anyone who wants to ban guns, only enforce stricter laws. Gun control doesn't mean gun elimination.
One way or another, it always ends up there though. Gun elimination is the only logical conclusion to the gun control rationale.
For example, does it make sense to think that the damage that could be inflicted by a shooter with a five or ten round magazine is "acceptable" or ok?... No. Therefore, once 30 round magazines are banned, the next logical step is to ban 10 rounders, then 5 rounders, then to ban detachable magazines altogether, and so on and so forth. Anything other than eventual, complete disarmament just wouldn't make sense, and that is why some are so reluctant to compromise on anything,
OK - - -
Can you give evidence of any totalitarian police states that were formed in response to a fully armed public?
USSR? No.
Pol Pot's Cambodia? No.
Mao's PRC? No.
I gave you the example, just look at our police forces today as compared to 50 years ago. As a result of the heavily armed public, the American people have found themselves all the more "policed".... This is an undeniable truth regardless of where you fall on the gun rights / gun control spectrum.
Am I making an argument for gun control? No. Just making an observation. As the public has adopted weapons with greater and greater force, so to have the police, in effect, growing the "police state"
I would like to find out what percentage of guns are used for violence and what percentage are used for defense before we start looking for a cure.
I can tell you right now that the numbers for defensive use are lower, but that doesn't really prove much. Criminality is I guess what you'd call an affirmative action, meaning that people do it purposely. I can decide to go out and hold up the local gas station, or shoot someone, but I can't say "hey, I'm going to go out and defend myself with a gun today", so it makes sense that defensive use is lower than offensive use.
Wrong. You've been going to too many Trump rallies. The NRA used to support background checks but haven't in years. La Pierre only agreed that they were a good idea after the Columbine shootings. People were outraged and he thought it was good for public relations. Then he changed his mind.
"used to" (from the free dictionary)
used to
1. main meaning
If something used to happen, it happened regularly in the past but does not happen now.
Similarly, if something used to be true, it was true in the past but is not true now.
"We contacted the NRA for our previous story but did not receive a response. In January, NRA board member Sandy Froman told CNN, "The NRA has changed its position, and the reason it's changed its position is because the system doesn't work."
The Froman quote is from a Jan 2013 CNN interview.
The NRA basically wrote the law that requires background checks today back in '93 or somewhere in that time frame. They did this in lieu of a waiting period. The NRA advocated that once the technology and the capability existed to implement an instant background check, the waiting period would be suspended and all checks would be instantaneous.
And if you don't believe me, take it directly from a gun control group, although they have their own spin on why the NRA helped to create it, they don't dispute the fact the NRA did...
There is a difference between gun culture and gun violence. We actually have a very healthy gun culture in this country, and that is separate from the crime culture that lead to gun violence.
One way or another, it always ends up there though. Gun elimination is the only logical conclusion to the gun control rationale.
For example, does it make sense to think that the damage that could be inflicted by a shooter with a five or ten round magazine is "acceptable" or ok?... No. Therefore, once 30 round magazines are banned, the next logical step is to ban 10 rounders, then 5 rounders, then to ban detachable magazines altogether, and so on and so forth. Anything other than eventual, complete disarmament just wouldn't make sense, and that is why some are so reluctant to compromise on anything,
Do you think a society where a mother teaches her mentally ill son about guns is a healthy culture.
Last edited by Goodnight; 03-01-2016 at 06:28 AM..
I can tell you right now that the numbers for defensive use are lower, but that doesn't really prove much. Criminality is I guess what you'd call an affirmative action, meaning that people do it purposely. I can decide to go out and hold up the local gas station, or shoot someone, but I can't say "hey, I'm going to go out and defend myself with a gun today", so it makes sense that defensive use is lower than offensive use.
Are you sure about that? Not every crime involves illegal use of a gun. In fact, I just looked it up. According to the BJS and FBI, the majority of crime is committed without the illegal use of a gun.
My whole point is that we should be taking a balanced view on gun reform. Not "only gun deaths" or "only lives saved". Both sides. Just like with pharmaceuticals. If we only looked at adverse reactions and not success rates, we'd want to ban every drug!
Are you sure about that? Not every crime involves illegal use of a gun. In fact, I just looked it up. According to the BJS and FBI, the majority of crime is committed without the illegal use of a gun.
My whole point is that we should be taking a balanced view on gun reform. Not "only gun deaths" or "only lives saved". Both sides. Just like with pharmaceuticals. If we only looked at adverse reactions and not success rates, we'd want to ban every drug!
but shouldn't your comparison also include the commonality of an illness across the board that those drugs are intended to assuage?
Today in my morning paper I read a headline article about a 14 year old kid taking a handgun to his school in Ohio and shooting two fellow students in class with it. Buried way back in the rear pages is an article about another 14 year old shooting and killing his 14 year old ffriend with a gun he brought to the boy's home to show off. Last weeks shooting in Miami included the death of a 6 year old in a gun battle that escalated from a facebook dust-up. ONE EDITION OF A DAILY PAPER! AND those were not the only firearms related stories in that paper.
I'm reading this stuff daily in my paper yet we're expected to believe shooting deaths are down and being asked to compare the good firearms do in protecting people from crime, predominantly crimes involving other FIREARMS!
Some grain of rationale must invade this discussion about firearms and the damage caused by their misuse at some point.
Whippersnapper 88 is at least trying to consider both viewpoints from a cause versus effect perspective.
but shouldn't your comparison also include the commonality of an illness across the board that those drugs are intended to assuage?
Today in my morning paper I read a headline article about a 14 year old kid taking a handgun to his school in Ohio and shooting two fellow students in class with it. Buried way back in the rear pages is an article about another 14 year old shooting and killing his 14 year old ffriend with a gun he brought to the boy's home to show off. Last weeks shooting in Miami included the death of a 6 year old in a gun battle that escalated from a facebook dust-up. ONE EDITION OF A DAILY PAPER! AND those were not the only firearms related stories in that paper.
I'm reading this stuff daily in my paper yet we're expected to believe shooting deaths are down and being asked to compare the good firearms do in protecting people from crime, predominantly crimes involving other FIREARMS!
Some grain of rationale must invade this discussion about firearms and the damage caused by their misuse at some point.
Whippersnapper 88 is at least trying to consider both viewpoints from a cause versus effect perspective.
I barely skimmed your post. Something about reading a newspaper, confusing anecdote with evidence, the usual blah blah.
but shouldn't your comparison also include the commonality of an illness across the board that those drugs are intended to assuage?
Today in my morning paper I read a headline article about a 14 year old kid taking a handgun to his school in Ohio and shooting two fellow students in class with it. Buried way back in the rear pages is an article about another 14 year old shooting and killing his 14 year old ffriend with a gun he brought to the boy's home to show off. Last weeks shooting in Miami included the death of a 6 year old in a gun battle that escalated from a facebook dust-up. ONE EDITION OF A DAILY PAPER! AND those were not the only firearms related stories in that paper.
I'm reading this stuff daily in my paper yet we're expected to believe shooting deaths are down and being asked to compare the good firearms do in protecting people from crime, predominantly crimes involving other FIREARMS!
Some grain of rationale must invade this discussion about firearms and the damage caused by their misuse at some point.
Whippersnapper 88 is at least trying to consider both viewpoints from a cause versus effect perspective.
According to the FBI, gun homicides have dropped every year since 1993. They are probably a little more accurate than your random stories.
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