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As long as it's not done via AA, I don't care either way it is going.
You may as well not care regardless because no one cares whether you care or not.
If they use AA, that's just too bad (for you).
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913
It isn't. STEM is overwhelmingly Asian.
I have a theory as to why more blacks don't enter STEM. And it is mainly because of many black communities, it is centered around the church. So many black kids are raised by grandparents and in my grandmothers generation, you were really never encouraged to ask too many questions. A big part of being successful in STEM is to have a very curious mind. I feel many aspects of the black community really doesn't encourage that level of curiosity. Between teachers, grandparents, the church, and parents, most black kids are largely discouraged from being curious about anything.
I work in STEM, because there is nothing else I could possibly do. I am just too curious of a person, and was a very curious child. The good thing about me is I had a father who was curious as well. Actually my father was a drug addict, but that was a blessing in disguise because it made him even MORE curious about stuff. My mother was also a pretty curious person too. My grandmother was as well, but she didn't encourage her children to be curious. But she never told them NOT to be either. So I just happened to have been raised in a family full of strange people who just asked a lot of weird questions. And that's important because that level of curiosity makes STEM very very fun.
I often ask a lot of dumb questions. It drives my girlfriend crazy (she's also black). But the minute I stop asking question is the minute I somewhat lose a big part of who I am.
I don't believe Asians really are all that more curious. And I think they ALSO live in households that don't encourage you ask too many questions. The difference is that Asians parents often make their kids go into these majors. And upsetting your parents is something not encouraged in Asian homes.
I feel the only culture that really encourages that level of curiosity are white homes.
Nah....i disagree although there are parts of what you say that are spot on.
Black folks just have a different picture of what success is. They think that you're supposed to get your MBA, or Masters in public policy, education, law or administration. It's a mindset. Yes, curiosity has a lot to do with it, but mostly it has to do with ingrained images of the black professional class. When they think of the black professional class, they don't think tech.
That's all it really is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan
Sorry DD, but tech is owned by Asians and Indians now.
People think that we are all the same and are groomed evenly. Many young men from the midwest and northern country sides of the north and south grow up on farms and have been working on vehicles and other technical oriented jobs. Most of these folks happen to be white. Growing up in urban areas, you are not exposed to that life as much and so your path is lead to other options. It's all related. Gun lovers are often hunters and often gun enthusiasts and often gamers, and often computer and tech wizes etc. Just cause you are your friends aren't any of that doesn't mean it isn't so.
While away in California for working on business training, there were mostly white folks that grew up in the midwest with wrenches in their mouths. Very few black and latino attended that advanced training. All they talked about was there farms, fishing, bbqing, 57 chevys and hunting. Black folk don't that stuff. Black folks don't own gun ranges, aren't farm owners, aren't industrial plant owners by larger means. It's not in our culture. You can do the social liberal thing of saying it is not so but why then are we having this discussion?
It's starts somewhere but most people want to start somewhere in the middle and ask the why but not care of the when.
The states with the highest percentage of black people are in the south, including Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana. And those states have a significant percentage of blacks and whites in rural areas, from what I've seen. Hands on mechanical experience isn't so much a racial difference, it's an urban vs rural one.
But companies want to see that degree. Being tech savvy without a degree worked in the late 80's when the industry was young, not so much today.
And the big tech companies are falling over their feet trying to hire minorities but the numbers just aren't there.
My words were in response to the person I quoted who stated black people don't have money for PCs. As stated, a majority of black people are not poor and large amount have PCs or some other computer device. Also, as stated, black people are very tech savvy.
Also, I shared in the thread last week about this same topic a USA Today article that stated that 4.6% of STEM degrees are black/hispanic in the country, yet on 2.3% of the jobs go to black/hispanic graduates.
So they aren't hiring minorities, not because they are not out there, but because they are not recruiting at universities/colleges where the minorities attend or because they don't feel that black/hispanic tech degree holders are as good as Asians or white degree holders.
And as DD mentioned, many black people don't see STEM as all that appealing and our professional class in America has always been of public policy administrators, educators, and healthcareworkers, which are the top majors for black Americans. Business is also a top major of my own generation, not sure today, but when I was in school in the late 1990s/early 2000s over half the black people I knew were business majors. I know a lot of them now as well. I also know quite a few black people who work in STEM, some worked for major silicon valley employers but quit those jobs due to a lack of satisfaction and they branched off and started their own thing. The others work for public organizations now, mostly colleges/universities.
And again, I have a kid who is highly skilled in math and science, but he thinks tech careers are boring and is now not wanting to do that sort of work. We are a black family. I am not going to force him to do a STEM major. I will do my best to make sure he at least does a business major or something that will command him enough money to take care of himself when he graduates but a STEM career is not something that is a priority IMO and I don't think it will automatically make black America wealthier either to have more STEM degrees.
The states with the highest percentage of black people are in the south, including Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana. And those states have a significant percentage of blacks and whites in rural areas, from what I've seen. Hands on mechanical experience isn't so much a racial difference, it's an urban vs rural one.
True...
Most things in this country break down to urban vs rural far more than black/white.
Most things in this country break down to urban vs rural far more than black/white.
As an aside since you brought that up. Ag mechanics and Ag design are pretty big in rural schools.
Yet few minorities take those classes even though they stay living in the rural towns.
When I taught Tech Apps at a middle school I used to tease the Ag teacher that his shop had better and more up to date equipment than my computer lab.
My words were in response to the person I quoted who stated black people don't have money for PCs. As stated, a majority of black people are not poor and large amount have PCs or some other computer device. Also, as stated, black people are very tech savvy.
Also, I shared in the thread last week about this same topic a USA Today article that stated that 4.6% of STEM degrees are black/hispanic in the country, yet on 2.3% of the jobs go to black/hispanic graduates.
So they aren't hiring minorities, not because they are not out there, but because they are not recruiting at universities/colleges where the minorities attend or because they don't feel that black/hispanic tech degree holders are as good as Asians or white degree holders.
And as DD mentioned, many black people don't see STEM as all that appealing and our professional class in America has always been of public policy administrators, educators, and healthcareworkers, which are the top majors for black Americans. Business is also a top major of my own generation, not sure today, but when I was in school in the late 1990s/early 2000s over half the black people I knew were business majors. I know a lot of them now as well. I also know quite a few black people who work in STEM, some worked for major silicon valley employers but quit those jobs due to a lack of satisfaction and they branched off and started their own thing. The others work for public organizations now, mostly colleges/universities.
And again, I have a kid who is highly skilled in math and science, but he thinks tech careers are boring and is now not wanting to do that sort of work. We are a black family. I am not going to force him to do a STEM major. I will do my best to make sure he at least does a business major or something that will command him enough money to take care of himself when he graduates but a STEM career is not something that is a priority IMO and I don't think it will automatically make black America wealthier either to have more STEM degrees.
First time GOOGLE came to the HBCU I teach at this year.
One of the H-1B TechHire Programs: for youth ages 17-29
Udacity's Nanodegree
Prerequisites differ by program, but some minimum requirements include:
You are self-driven and motivated to learn. Participation in this program requires consistently meeting the deadlines.
You can communicate proficiently and professionally in written and spoken English.
You have access to a computer with a broadband connection, on which you’ll install a professional code/text editor.
You approach problem solving strategically and can clearly communicate your strategies.
You are willing to contribute to the success of the program, including collaborating with fellow students and giving us feedback on how we can improve. You have a reliable means of participating in video conferences (ie. Google Hangouts and/or Skype) and of communicating with a Coach (for project assessments and verifications for instance).
For kids it usually boils down to the role models that they have around them or see in popular culture. For many black kids, it's rare to personally know of a scientist or engineer growing up who looks like them. Kids usually want to be like someone they know personally or someone who they see in the media who comes from a similar background.
For those who don't have anyone successful around them to look up to, most of the successful black people you'll see on TV play sports or are some sort of entertainer. It's great and all to achieve that but it's unrealistic for most. It requires extraordinary talent as well as luck to excel at one of those. Success through education is far more realistic and gives them a better shot but sports and entertainment are usually pushed more. Even when education is pushed by parents who've never been to college, it's usually up to the child to figure out how to utilize and take advantage of whatever opportunities that are out there. Navigating the college environment itself can be extremely difficult (especially in STEM) when your parents have no idea of the process and you have to do everything on your own.
Also the typical scientist or engineer is stereotyped as some socially awkward and/or geeky nerd. It's not "cool" and that kind of goes for all races. Kids want to be cool and fit in. It's usually not until people become adults that they realize that scientists and engineers are highly respectable in society and are paid pretty well. By then it's usually too late if you've never held interest in those fields before. The issue is getting kids to see it as cool when they're young and the interest can still be planted into their heads.
Blacks also still make up a large portion of the lower income class in America. Therefore there is enormous pressure for many who do go to college to make money quickly. Engineering degrees take many students 5 years to complete and working full time to survive while putting in the necessary study hours can be too much for many students to bear. There are other majors that kids think will pay off more quickly and be easier to obtain.
Then finally there are a lot of people who just don't have the aptitude for highly demanding STEM fields. Engineering for example, requires high levels of math and science and way more hours per week dedicated to studying than most other majors. A lot of people either can't/don't want to put that much time into classes.
It's just something that's going to take more time. Educated parents usually breed educated children. As more and more black Americans enter these fields then the numbers should continue to grow slowly but surely.
For kids it usually boils down to the role models that they have around them or see in popular culture. For many black kids, it's rare to personally know of a scientist or engineer growing up who looks like them. Kids usually want to be like someone they know personally or someone who they see in the media who comes from a similar background.
Hmm. I can think of a few.
There's
Neil Degrasse Tyson - Astrophysicist & Cosmologist - infamous for demoting Pluto to dwarf planet.
Morgan Freeman - Hosts numerous science programs
Mae C. Jemison - Astronaut & first African American in Space
Maggie Aderin-Poccock - Physicist who hosts many space shows
As an aside since you brought that up. Ag mechanics and Ag design are pretty big in rural schools.
Yet few minorities take those classes even though they stay living in the rural towns.
When I taught Tech Apps at a middle school I used to tease the Ag teacher that his shop had better and more up to date equipment than my computer lab.
Blacks want to leave the rural areas that they come from when they're young. The Ag business in the south is dominated by whites. Blacks have traditionally been Ag labor moreso than on the business or technical side.
Your point is well taken that there's good money to be made in Ag on the tech and business side. It just doesn't appeal to black youth.
We have an antiquated mindset in the black community that success for us is only to be found in getting MBA's, law, medicine, public administration, communications, and liberal arts degrees. But when they see other successful blacks, that's what they see so they mistakenly believe that those are the only avenues to success.
I'm floored at the amount of black kids that want MBA's nowadays. I wonder what's that all about.
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