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View Poll Results: Which do you prefer?
A. Endowed natural rights and liberties 42 66.67%
B. Government granted civil and political liberties 5 7.94%
C. Shari’a law 6 9.52%
D. Anarchy 3 4.76%
E. None of the above 7 11.11%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-04-2016, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,013 posts, read 14,191,607 times
Reputation: 16727

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Re: Shari'a law

FOUNDERS QUOTES
in support of the claim that
ISLAM has been at war with America from the beginning.
- - - -
“We took the liberty to make some enquiries concerning the ground of their pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury, and observed that we considered all mankind as our friends who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation. The Ambassador [of Tripoli] answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”
- - - Thomas Jefferson, Letter from the commissioners (John Adams, Thomas Jefferson) to John Jay, 28 March 1786, in Thomas Jefferson Travels: Selected Writings, 1784-1789, by Anthony Brandt, pp. 104-105.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson

(Digest version : We consider all mankind as our friends. Their response : It is their right and duty to make war upon all infidels, and make slaves of all they could take as prisoners.)

- - - -
“The precept of the koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force.”
- - - John Quincy Adams, 6th American President
https://www.apologeticspress.org/apc...7&article=1142

(Digest version : Koran imposes perpetual war against infidels. Convert, dhimmi, or die... no other option.)
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Old 03-04-2016, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,013 posts, read 14,191,607 times
Reputation: 16727
PRIVATE CHARITY IS SUPERIOR TO PUBLIC CHARITY
=\=\=\=\=
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathol...nd_health_care
The Roman Catholic Church is the largest non-government provider of health care services in the world. It has around 18,000 clinics, 16,000 homes for the elderly and those with special needs, and 5,500 hospitals, with 65 per cent of them located in developing countries. In 2010, the Church's Pontifical Council for Pastoral Assistance to Health Care Workers said that the Church manages 26% of the world's health care facilities. The Church's involvement in health care has ancient origins.
Private charity is a blessing.
Compulsory charity (socialism) is a curse.

One is based on freedom, the other based on enslavement.
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 1,170,906 times
Reputation: 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
That's interesting….

Article I, of the United States Constitution,

Section. 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Amendment XVI

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
"Congress may spend money in aid of the 'general welfare'... There have been great statesmen in our history who have stood for other views... The line must still be drawn between one welfare and another, between particular and general. Where this shall be placed cannot be known through a formula in advance of the event... The discretion belongs to Congress, unless the choice is clearly wrong, a display of arbitrary power, not an exercise of judgment. This is now familiar law…."
Benjamin N. Cardozo writing for the majority in Helvering v. Davis, 301 U.S. 619 (1937)

Which is dependent uponMarbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137 (1803) the power of judicial review.

So were does that leave your argument, Article I in the Constitution as originally drafted, the XVI Amendment as adopted per the Constitution and successfully defended through the Supreme Court as constituted under the same.
I think the father of the Constitution would know.

"The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government."
-- James Madison, speech in the House of Representatives, January 10, 1794
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Florida
9,569 posts, read 5,618,697 times
Reputation: 12024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
It is immoral to take money from one person and give it to another. Theft by government is still theft and immoral.
You can't rob the willing though can you? You are a willing participant in American Society and it is a give and take though don't you think?

What are your priorities in life?

Do you enjoy paved roads, clean drinking water , the ability to call 9/11 and have fire / medical /police at your house within minutes?

What is theft to you?

As for me I considered Dubya taking my hard earned tax money and using it to launch a War against Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11 as theft.

See how this works?
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:53 AM
 
13,307 posts, read 7,866,287 times
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Boys raised on welfare can be soldiers.

Girls raised on welfare can be bureaucrats.

It's as God intended.
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Old 03-04-2016, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,013 posts, read 14,191,607 times
Reputation: 16727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz View Post
[1] You can't rob the willing though can you?

[2] You are a willing participant in American Society and it is a give and take though don't you think?

What are your priorities in life?

[3] Do you enjoy paved roads, clean drinking water , the ability to call 9/11 and have fire / medical /police at your house within minutes?

[4] What is theft to you?

[5] As for me I considered Dubya taking my hard earned tax money and using it to launch a War against Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11 as theft.

[6] See how this works?
[6] Actually, that is not how "it works."
[1] Ironically, socialist taxation is based on consent. No law compels participation in Socialist InSecurity (and its tax system).
“The Social Security Act does not require an individual to have a Social Security Number (SSN) to live and work within the United States, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one...”
- - - The Social Security Administration
http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/ScottSSNLetter.pdf

[2, 3] Technically speaking, those "Compelled Benefits" are clouded by fraud and misrepresentation.
Rights are not subject to taxation, whereas privileges are.

[4] Most Americans are taught that their "civic duties" are involuntary servitude. Most are unaware of how and when they consented to be so governed and burdened.

[5] Again, if you consent, all bets are off. He who consents cannot object.

If I may direct your attention to Honest Abe:
- - - -
"What I do say is that no man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent. I say this is the leading principle, the sheet-anchor of American republicanism. Our Declaration of Independence says: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
- - - Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Peoria, Illinois (1854)
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abraham_lincoln
As Lincoln reminds us, under the republican form, promised by the USCON, instituted by the Declaration of Independence, NO MAN (nor American government) is good enough to govern you without your consent. Without your consent, all that government is authorized to do is secure endowed (sacred) rights (prosecute trespass; adjudicate disputes; defend against enemies, foreign or domestic).

You must learn HOW and WHEN you gave consent and decide if you wish to continue or withdraw that consent.

Until the current system is destroyed, you still have the freedom of choice.

Pursuant to the Declaration of Independence, government has two jobs:
▸ [1] secure (endowed) rights and
▸ [2] govern those who consent.

CAVEAT : consent waives job #1 !

If you consented to leave the republican form to participate in the constitutionally limited indirect democratic form, well - - - -

(BTW - the republican form is NOT a "constitutional republic". The republican form existed BEFORE the U.S. Constitution, and elected government.)
REPUBLICAN GOVERNMENT. . . The fourth section of the fourth article of the constitution, directs that "the United States shall guaranty to every state in the Union a republican form of government." The form of government is to be guarantied, WHICH SUPPOSES A FORM ALREADY ESTABLISHED, and this is the republican form of government the United States have undertaken to protect.
- - - Bouvier’s Law Dictionary, 6th edition, 1856
. . .
The republican form existed BEFORE the USCON, thus it cannot be a “constitutional republic.”
. . .
Under the subsection: CONSTITUTION
Sec. 4. The guarantee of a republican form of government to every "state" means to its people and not to its government: Texas v. White. 7 Wall. (U. S.) 700, 19 L. Ed. 227. Where it was also held that this clause was sufficient authority for the reconstruction, after the Civil War of the governments of the states included within the Confederacy. No precise definition of what constitutes a republican government under this clause has been judicially declared; . . . Minor v. Happersett, 21 Wall. (U. S.) 162, 22 L. Ed. 027
- - - Bouvier’s Law Dictionary, 8th ed. (1914), P.635
The republican form is guaranteed to the PEOPLE (sovereigns) not to the state governments (oath bound subjects of the U.S. government). But if you wish to participate in the democratic form, that's YOUR CHOICE (and evidence of consent).
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 4,092,732 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
It is immoral to take money from one person and give it to another. Theft by government is still theft and immoral.
Except it's not theft. It's really not that ****ing hard to get. Taxes are made by congress. We elect representatives to serve in congress. The constitution very clearly states that congress can collect taxes and use them for anything so long as it does not directly conflict with the constitution.

If you don't like taxes, vote for someone else.

Now of course money has corrupted out system. Too bad for you, the only guy who actually is going to even attempt to do something about that is a socialist.

But it's not theft. It would only be theft if the process were undemocratic. It's not. Things like welfare and Obamacare, while not without flaw, were passed democratically and through methods outlined within the constitution. Neither directly conflict with any constitutional rights. And the best part; you still get to ***** about it! Because that's your right.

Socialism is no way conflicts with republican form of government.
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Old 03-04-2016, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,745 posts, read 3,957,483 times
Reputation: 2061
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Excluding explicit constitutional delegations of power (post office, courts, military), the remainder is NOT part of the delegation of power to SECURE ENDOWED RIGHTS.

In fact, BEFORE the European influence of the PROGRESSIVES, America's infrastructure WAS privately owned and operated, and quite well without GOVERNMENT / Taxpayer subsidy. Roads, bridges, canals, railroads, ferries, etc, were privately owned and operated. There were parks, sidewalks, etc. There were private charitable organizations that operated hospitals, clinics, and there were even "poor houses."

Example of private infrastructure converted to public:
Wilkes-Barre, news, sports, obituaries, and classifieds for Luzerne County and Scranton | The Times Leader, Wilkes-Barre, Scranton PA - www.timesleader.com
“The Luzerne County Commissioners had bought the bridge for $165,000 and would soon buy many others throughout the county, ending the time-honored practice of letting private companies build bridges and then operate them for profit.”
"Free to cross the river" wasn't really free, after all.
(TANSTAAFL)

Sadly, due to mismanagement and finances, the infrastructure is crumbling. Of course, the remedy is simple - give more tax money to the same folks who let it crumble.

BUT BLAME THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND "CAPITALISM" FIRST !

Governments will never stop looking for EXCUSES to expand their power and revenue... it's the name of the game.

But no government can do anything cheaper, better, faster, wiser, or more economically than the private sector - because government does not operate under "common sense" constraints but under political power and partisanship... with a healthy dose of "skim" and "red tape."

Corruption, thy name is government.

FWIW -
"Underdeveloped" USA (1900) - Government spent 0.9% of the GNP.
"Socialist" USA (2014) - Government spent 44% of the GDP.
(Pharaoh's serfs only paid 20% - one part in five!)

I think it's time to put government on a diet - and push its spending back to less than 1% of the nation's output.


Addendum:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...before_1890%29
A timeline of United States inventions (before 1890) encompasses the ingenuity and innovative advancements of the United States - amazing how anything was ever invented without government subsidy!
It's really too bad that capitalists decided to stop funding infrastructure improvements in the United States. If they had continued to provide for the nation as a whole, there is a good chance that the populace wouldn't be so pissed off.
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Old 03-04-2016, 11:24 PM
 
32,063 posts, read 15,046,900 times
Reputation: 13667
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Yes - we are giving away our freedoms.

It starts with education. People who are not educated don't know the Constitution of their rights... they just know what they need, and they know to go to the government to get what they can't obtain on their own... and the government is happy to oblige them for their vote.

Now it is extending to allowing illegal immigrants and refugees into the country to skew the election percentages in the future. These are needy people hungry for "free" government goodies - in exchange for their vote.

It takes effort to keep our freedom. People are not interested. It's boring... rather do sports, music, movies, candy crush... we have become impatient and inattentive to the point where we can't set the phone device down long enough to drive from A to B - which is equivalent to drunk driving.

If we don't reverse course, it will be a total system failure for this country. We are all to blame.

Then why don't parents teach the constitution to them. Why do you rely on schools to do that when all the focus is on math and science now. Do your job as a parent and help educate your kids
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Old 03-05-2016, 04:19 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,013 posts, read 14,191,607 times
Reputation: 16727
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
Socialism is no way conflicts with republican form of government.
Technically, if one consents to socialism, that is true.
But no one can be both "sovereign" (under the republican form) and be "socialist" (obligated to work for the benefit of another).
And if one was TRICKED into consenting to be a socialist slave, then we have a problem.
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