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Old 03-15-2016, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,355,152 times
Reputation: 1229

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I posted earlier, but this is really simple. You don't have a right to other people's time, labor, money, life...

 
Old 03-15-2016, 08:22 AM
 
286 posts, read 383,034 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFranklin View Post
This guy's understanding of doing something "right" is giving someone something for free. No statement about whether he works or not, ever has, ever will. Drug addiction, alcoholism. There is no degenerative status so low that will serve as am effective argument against giving someone something for free. The parasites love themselves, first and foremost and then second they love each other and finally they hate the producers, even as they demand to enslave them in order to maintain the addictions an creature comforts of the indolent and lazy parasitic class.
Free? it is NOT free. Even the farthest of left democrats and left wing extremists understand that. What we are saying is that our current system does NOT work, and as long as there are Health insurance companies FOR PROFIT, their goal, their pride and joy is the money. They will put a clients health at risk by denying claims for the sake of saving money and continuing to collect premiums.


Now I don't want to get banned or in trouble by a moderator but the only thing "parasitic" is your mindset.
 
Old 03-15-2016, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Iowa
865 posts, read 623,209 times
Reputation: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by fr3ssconyc View Post
why it isn't in constitution that health care should be free. like free speech.
Europe and other countries have free health care.
5 Weeks vacation per year
Honeymoon payed
Government send a baby sitter to your house to help clean, laundry when woman pregnant in France.

After watching a good documentary called "Sicko", it exposed bad it is in US. makes me want to leave U.S.
Why are there so many different health insurance companies.
There's a saying; "your rights end at the tip of my nose".

What that means in this situation is, someone has to provide this "free" healthcare. By forcing the doctors and nurses to provide you with "free" healthcare, you are taking away their rights.

That's why it's not in the constitution.
 
Old 03-15-2016, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,355,152 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by bringamac92 View Post
Free? it is NOT free. Even the farthest of left democrats and left wing extremists understand that. What we are saying is that our current system does NOT work, and as long as there are Health insurance companies FOR PROFIT, their goal, their pride and joy is the money. They will put a clients health at risk by denying claims for the sake of saving money and continuing to collect premiums.


Now I don't want to get banned or in trouble by a moderator but the only thing "parasitic" is your mindset.
So the solution is to throw out the idea of inalienable rights? I agree that things must change, but people are very quick to abandon the principles of individual rights. They're quick to point guns at people to enforce their personal opinions.

Also, what incentive replaces profit? People generally don't like doing things for nothing in return, so what do they get in return for providing healthcare or insurance to others? Or is it like slave labor where they're just forced to do it against their will?
 
Old 03-15-2016, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
These are all excellent points. Designing systems to contain healthcare costs would be helpful.

Also raises many questions, & as always, 'Cui bono?'

Why do the rights of corporations, even private non-profit ones, supersede the rights of individual human beings? Why is the corporation's or industry's right to protect monopolies seen as more important than the individual's right to protect their health?

Apparently our systems are rigged that way.
Companies are using their own money to protect their interests.

And you have your money.
 
Old 03-15-2016, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,355,152 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
These are all excellent points. Designing systems to contain healthcare costs would be helpful.

Also raises many questions, & as always, 'Cui bono?'

Why do the rights of corporations, even private non-profit ones, supersede the rights of individual human beings? Why is the corporation's or industry's right to protect monopolies seen as more important than the individual's right to protect their health?

Apparently our systems are rigged that way.
Corporations don't have rights.. People have rights. So yes, the individual's rights come before any private or state collection of individuals. However, the way you phrased it is a little misleading. The individual's right to protect their health is very important, but giving people the "right" to force others to pay their bills is not that. Their right to protect their health is a negative right. It isn't that they have a right to other people's money, it's that they have a right to not be prevented from voluntary transactions regarding their health.

An example that comes to mind is state regulations that ban doctors from prescribing "non-approved" medicine to people who want it. I remember watching something on a kid who had a certain condition, and the only thing that worked for him was a marijuana/hemp related remedy. It was working extremely well and the government stepped in and prevented them from using it. He went back to the pain and issues he had earlier.

So yes, you have a right to not be prevented from medical care you consent to, but you don't have a right to force anyone to pay for it.
 
Old 03-15-2016, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,889,092 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weichert View Post
Isn't it wonderful to have the freedom to spend maybe twice as much for healthcare as other countries do with worse results in many cases and not even covering everyone with credible coverage.

And clap and cheer for the privilege of doing so.
Why do hispanics in the USA get better results, when we use life expectancy, than non-hispanic whites? They have less access to health care.

The fact is Europe tends to have no frills healthcare and university education. If the left would actually make an attempt to defrill programs we could certainly expand access in both these areas with the current government funding. I am sick of tired of why don't we have "free" like Europe with no attempt to deliver no frill European type services.

Americans over 65 have a lower life expectancy in terms of remaining years than those under 65 despite having Medicare. A simple fact. What, you are saying that those over 65 are less likely to live longer because they are older not because they have Medicare? Well, I would suggest the life expectancy of Americans is lower than Europeans primarily due to obesity not based on medical services.

You liberals can sell me on universal health care as long as you cap the government expenditures at 10% of GDP, about what our state, local and federal governments pay now and a bit more than the UK pays. Beware, a prominent liberal already promised Obamacare would save us 2500 bucks a year which was clearly a lie I will be wanting to thoroughly vet any proposal.

Want to improve your life expectancy...lose 20 pounds.

Please, I need the proposal on cutting our costs by about 40%, you can then pay for it with no extra funding.

Last edited by whogo; 03-15-2016 at 10:57 AM..
 
Old 03-15-2016, 09:48 AM
 
8,630 posts, read 9,137,436 times
Reputation: 5990
Quote:
Originally Posted by fr3ssconyc View Post
why it isn't in constitution that health care should be free. like free speech.
Europe and other countries have free health care.
5 Weeks vacation per year
Honeymoon payed
Government send a baby sitter to your house to help clean, laundry when woman pregnant in France.

After watching a good documentary called "Sicko", it exposed bad it is in US. makes me want to leave U.S.
Why are there so many different health insurance companies.
Shareholders are of more value. We are not a democratic capitalist country.
 
Old 03-15-2016, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,889,092 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
We did it to ourselves over the years.
And now we're complaining because the costs have gone beyond our reach.

You can do something about it. Only fear prevents people from doing it.


Back in the 70's I broke my foot. Trip to the hospital, X-ray, cast. Then go back in 6 weeks to get cast off.

Not so today. My son broke his arm. Trip to hospital. X-ray which showed a simple break.
Doctors wanted to do additional CT scan "just in case". I said NO THANKS.
They put cast on. They wanted weekly visits for each of the 6 weeks to check cast. I said NO THANKS.
Went back after 6 weeks to get cast off.

It was a simple break. Do you know how much money I saved by saying NO THANKS ?
I have a high deductible plan.

Here's the problem..people don't say NO to additional tests/screenings/checkup visits because of FEAR.
Actually sometimes I don't because I have a low deductible plan and sometimes it is worth 25 bucks when it ain't worth 250 bucks.
 
Old 03-15-2016, 11:37 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,306,967 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by fr3ssconyc View Post
why it isn't in constitution that health care should be free. like free speech.
Europe and other countries have free health care.
5 Weeks vacation per year
Honeymoon payed
Government send a baby sitter to your house to help clean, laundry when woman pregnant in France.

After watching a good documentary called "Sicko", it exposed bad it is in US. makes me want to leave U.S.
Why are there so many different health insurance companies.
Because health care must be provided by someone to you. That costs money.

Speech doesn't need to be "provided." Only those things which don't require that they be provided by someone else can be a "right." That's why you have to pay for health care. A doctor has a right to charge for his services and be paid for those charges. You don't have a right to force him to treat you for free.
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