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Who cares about the Dow, look at the record 21 million and counting jobs lost under his time.
That’s not his fault, although that will be the Democrat mantra as we head toward the election: look at how Much unemployment we had under Trump. They will be working overtime to make people forget that prior to the Chinese virus, Trump’s pro-business climate has us at the lowest UE in 50 years (and record low for blacks).
We would have lost substantially more jobs if Biden were at the helm, waving in flight after flight of Chinese people because....can’t be seen as xenophobic.
That’s not his fault, although that will be the Democrat mantra as we head toward the election: look at how Much unemployment we had under Trump. They will be working overtime to make people forget that prior to the Chinese virus, Trump’s pro-business climate has us at the lowest UE in 50 years (and record low for blacks).
We would have lost substantially more jobs if Biden were at the helm, waving in flight after flight of Chinese people because....can’t be seen as xenophobic.
Notice how nothing is ever Trumps fault?
Anyone who goes through life without accepting blame has serious issues.
Who cares about the Dow, look at the record 21 million and counting jobs lost under his time.
The Dow is a leading and not lagging indicator. The Dow plummeted from over 27,000 to under 17,000 (granted each of those positions lasted a day or so) that was a leading indicator of the savaging of employment. What my optimistic side says is that the "real action" will be to reopen and to sideline the petty tyrants.
Schrödinger's Trump approval ratings: Hey look...the polls show Trumps up to 46.0 on RCP. Also: The polls are all wrong like they were in 2016 if they show hes not up
Anyone who goes through life without accepting blame has serious issues.
And note that all during this period of extreme market volatility every time there's a strong move up in the markets the Trump worshippers crawl out of the woodwork crowing about how Trump is responsible. Then when the markets plunge again it's crickets. Trumpies are getting whipsawed so much their heads must be spinning.
Without Bernies supporters factored in poll, Biden is surprisingly doing well in that poll. If Bernies supporters listen to him today after Bernies endorsement of Biden, I would like to see what the new poll says. Likely a jump for Biden, but a more interesting poll is asking Bernie voters if they will vote for Biden as of today
I am not voting for Biden. Bernie's endorsement does not make a difference to me. Most Bernie supporters are not loyal to Bernie. They agree with his policies and ideas. If someone else advocated these, they would vote for them. Some readers assume these endorsements mean the party is united. They don't. It means the candidates are using their collective voice in the hopes all their supporters will now vote for Biden. It doesn't reflect on the voters themselves, especially not to progressive voters who are repeatedly chastised and ordered to "Vote for Biden or else you'll be the cause of our loss to Trump." Warren, Sanders, and Obama's late stage half baked endorsements ring hollow. Who else would they endorse? There's no one left. If they were being sincere, they would have endorsed Biden before he became the nominee.
I've voted Dem like a good little girl for 25 years save once. I voted for Sanders and appreciated all the candidates but believed Biden was the weakest of them all. After Biden received the nomination and I read attitudes toward Sanders' supporters, I thought about the larger political situation and the centrists' attitude of entitlement and obligation toward us. The party, lacking confidence in Biden's as yet unnamed VP to win the election, is already pinning the blame on her expected loss on Bernie Sanders.
Biden is such a weak candidate even his supporters are expecting everyone else to do his job: his VP to be president, Bernie to grab votes for him, Obama to campaign for him, Bloomberg to donate his billions. The only person who doesn't have to work for the win is Biden himself. And when Biden loses, it will supposedly be Bernie's fault that he was unable to round up enthusiasm from his supporters to vote for the weakest candidate Democrats ever produced. They are wrong.
It is the fault of the Democratic establishment's incessant cheerleading for a fatally flawed, weak, feeble, demented candidate with numerous skeletons in his closet; one who is unable to campaign effectively and cannot elicit an iota of enthusiasm among even his most ardent supporters. I am disappointed in how the media and Biden supporters are trying to guilt us into supporting another empty suit centrist candidate who does not support our values, even actively opposes them, telling us to "Deal with it, your values don't matter," and that the only thing that matters is getting rid of Trump, don't complain, we should be satisfied with inaction once again.
The progressive platform is the former Democratic platform. The current Democratic platform is watered down Republicanism, in love with unabashed greed in which inertia is acceptable as long as Republicans stay out of power. They use the concept of "incrementalism" as an excuse to avoid making changes that benefit the middle and lower class. Centists' refusal to promote any of the progressive platform, not even universal healthcare, makes centrist Democrats polite Republicans. They blame the GOP for lack of progress, but they don't want change themselves. If they did, they would have supported Warren or Sanders, or at least supported some policies. I will never vote for either party again. 3rd party for me. If Trump is reelected, so be it.
Perhaps if Trump is reelected and destroys the country they will finally get the message that younger Americans cannot afford to live on the scraps of the wealthy; we can't wait an indefinite amount of "next times," we are not as financially well off as our parents, and we need bold changes to improve our status in life because we are doing the right thing and it's still not enough. The Democrats' contempt toward progressive views and unwillingness to compromise has led me to abandon this party after voting D for 25 years and getting nothing out of it but the expectation that "I owe them my vote" and offering us nothing in return. If I voted for Biden, it would just show establishment Democrats I'll fall in line no matter what and they have no reason to listen to me. My vote is my only power, and they have taken it for granted too long. I hope other progressives do the same as myself.
I am not voting for Biden. Bernie's endorsement does not make a difference to me. Most Bernie supporters are not loyal to Bernie. They agree with his policies and ideas. If someone else advocated these, they would vote for them. Some readers assume these endorsements mean the party is united. They don't. It means the candidates are using their collective voice in the hopes all their supporters will now vote for Biden. It doesn't reflect on the voters themselves, especially not to progressive voters who are repeatedly chastised and ordered to "Vote for Biden or else you'll be the cause of our loss to Trump." Warren, Sanders, and Obama's late stage half baked endorsements ring hollow. Who else would they endorse? There's no one left. If they were being sincere, they would have endorsed Biden before he became the nominee.
I've voted Dem like a good little girl for 25 years save once. I voted for Sanders and appreciated all the candidates but believed Biden was the weakest of them all. After Biden received the nomination and I read attitudes toward Sanders' supporters, I thought about the larger political situation and the centrists' attitude of entitlement and obligation toward us. The party, lacking confidence in Biden's as yet unnamed VP to win the election, is already pinning the blame on her expected loss on Bernie Sanders.
Biden is such a weak candidate even his supporters are expecting everyone else to do his job: his VP to be president, Bernie to grab votes for him, Obama to campaign for him, Bloomberg to donate his billions. The only person who doesn't have to work for the win is Biden himself. And when Biden loses, it will supposedly be Bernie's fault that he was unable to round up enthusiasm from his supporters to vote for the weakest candidate Democrats ever produced. They are wrong.
It is the fault of the Democratic establishment's incessant cheerleading for a fatally flawed, weak, feeble, demented candidate with numerous skeletons in his closet; one who is unable to campaign effectively and cannot elicit an iota of enthusiasm among even his most ardent supporters. I am disappointed in how the media and Biden supporters are trying to guilt us into supporting another empty suit centrist candidate who does not support our values, even actively opposes them, telling us to "Deal with it, your values don't matter," and that the only thing that matters is getting rid of Trump, don't complain, we should be satisfied with inaction once again.
The progressive platform is the former Democratic platform. The current Democratic platform is watered down Republicanism, in love with unabashed greed in which inertia is acceptable as long as Republicans stay out of power. They use the concept of "incrementalism" as an excuse to avoid making changes that benefit the middle and lower class. Centists' refusal to promote any of the progressive platform, not even universal healthcare, makes centrist Democrats polite Republicans. They blame the GOP for lack of progress, but they don't want change themselves. If they did, they would have supported Warren or Sanders, or at least supported some policies. I will never vote for either party again. 3rd party for me. If Trump is reelected, so be it.
Perhaps if Trump is reelected and destroys the country they will finally get the message that younger Americans cannot afford to live on the scraps of the wealthy; we can't wait an indefinite amount of "next times," we are not as financially well off as our parents, and we need bold changes to improve our status in life because we are doing the right thing and it's still not enough. The Democrats' contempt toward progressive views and unwillingness to compromise has led me to abandon this party after voting D for 25 years and getting nothing out of it but the expectation that "I owe them my vote" and offering us nothing in return. If I voted for Biden, it would just show establishment Democrats I'll fall in line no matter what and they have no reason to listen to me. My vote is my only power, and they have taken it for granted too long. I hope other progressives do the same as myself.
Bernie supporters believe in his "policies and ideas" so much that they are willing to doom their own agenda for a generation to "stick it" to the DNC. Its going to be pretty sweet for Bernie supporters to see mainstream Democrats upset when Ruth Bader Ginsburg gets replaced with a hard-right corporatist ideologue, right?
It isn't about "owing" anyone your vote. Its about casting your vote in a manner designed to further your agenda incrementally because radical change simply isn't available. Imagine you wanted to remodel every part of your home but realized you currently only had the wherewithal to redesign the kitchen. Is the solution really to burn down your house in protest?
I've voted Dem like a good little girl for 25 years save once. I voted for Sanders and appreciated all the candidates but believed Biden was the weakest of them all. After Biden received the nomination and I read attitudes toward Sanders' supporters, I thought about the larger political situation and the centrists' attitude of entitlement and obligation toward us. The party, lacking confidence in Biden's as yet unnamed VP to win the election, is already pinning the blame on her expected loss on Bernie Sanders.
It is the fault of the Democratic establishment's incessant cheerleading for a fatally flawed, weak, feeble, demented candidate with numerous skeletons in his closet; one who is unable to campaign effectively and cannot elicit an iota of enthusiasm among even his most ardent supporters. I am disappointed in how the media and Biden supporters are trying to guilt us into supporting another empty suit centrist candidate who does not support our values, even actively opposes them, telling us to "Deal with it, your values don't matter," and that the only thing that matters is getting rid of Trump, don't complain, we should be satisfied with inaction once again.
The progressive platform is the former Democratic platform. The current Democratic platform is watered down Republicanism, in love with unabashed greed in which inertia is acceptable as long as Republicans stay out of power. They use the concept of "incrementalism" as an excuse to avoid making changes that benefit the middle and lower class. Centists' refusal to promote any of the progressive platform, not even universal healthcare, makes centrist Democrats polite Republicans. They blame the GOP for lack of progress, but they don't want change themselves. If they did, they would have supported Warren or Sanders, or at least supported some policies. I will never vote for either party again. 3rd party for me. If Trump is reelected, so be it.
Perhaps if Trump is reelected and destroys the country they will finally get the message that younger Americans cannot afford to live on the scraps of the wealthy; we can't wait an indefinite amount of "next times," we are not as financially well off as our parents, and we need bold changes to improve our status in life because we are doing the right thing and it's still not enough. The Democrats' contempt toward progressive views and unwillingness to compromise has led me to abandon this party after voting D for 25 years and getting nothing out of it but the expectation that "I owe them my vote" and offering us nothing in return. If I voted for Biden, it would just show establishment Democrats I'll fall in line no matter what and they have no reason to listen to me. My vote is my only power, and they have taken it for granted too long. I hope other progressives do the same as myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey
Bernie supporters believe in his "policies and ideas" so much that they are willing to doom their own agenda for a generation to "stick it" to the DNC. Its going to be pretty sweet for Bernie supporters to see mainstream Democrats upset when Ruth Bader Ginsburg gets replaced with a hard-right corporatist ideologue, right?
It isn't about "owing" anyone your vote. Its about casting your vote in a manner designed to further your agenda incrementally because radical change simply isn't available. Imagine you wanted to remodel every part of your home but realized you currently only had the wherewithal to redesign the kitchen. Is the solution really to burn down your house in protest?
You are making the exact same assumption other establishment Democrats do; that incrementalism is a solution. It's not that radical change isn't a solution. It's that centrist Democrats refuse to compromise themselves. They REFUSE to vote for a liberal president. They refuse to try something different, even though what we're doing isn't working. How much more proof do we need that the millions who are unemployed without health insurance? Like I said in my post, I've voted for the same establishment Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, for 25 years, and I've heard the same song and dance. "It's not your time now. Next time. Next time. Next time."
Meanwhile, establishment Democrats aren't getting anything done, the federal minimum wage is still $7.25/hour, and people are dropping like flies from COVID-19 and every other disease because their "healthcare" is tied to their nonexistent employment. Had establishment Democrats supported Elizabeth Warren, what would have happened? Maybe something good would have happened, but centrists won't give liberals a chance ever. And M4A wouldn't have been dead in the water before she even entered office like it is with Biden. Why would I continue to vote for the same old thing that delivers no results? Biden literally promised, "Nothing will fundamentally change." Since it won't, I won't waste my vote on more of the same nothing I've gotten for nearly three decades. I've aready doomed my agenda by believing the establishment's empty promises about helping people who aren't well off. It's time to try something different.
You are making the exact same assumption other establishment Democrats do; that incrementalism is a solution. It's not that radical change isn't a solution. It's that centrist Democrats refuse to compromise themselves. They REFUSE to vote for a liberal president. They refuse to try something different, even though what we're doing isn't working. How much more proof do we need that the millions who are unemployed without health insurance? Like I said in my post, I've voted for the same establishment Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, for 25 years, and I've heard the same song and dance. "It's not your time now. Next time. Next time. Next time."
Meanwhile, establishment Democrats aren't getting anything done, the federal minimum wage is still $7.25/hour, and people are dropping like flies from COVID-19 and every other disease because their "healthcare" is tied to their nonexistent employment. Had establishment Democrats supported Elizabeth Warren, what would have happened? Maybe something good would have happened, but centrists won't give liberals a chance ever. And M4A wouldn't have been dead in the water before she even entered office like it is with Biden. Why would I continue to vote for the same old thing that delivers no results? Biden literally promised, "Nothing will fundamentally change." Since it won't, I won't waste my vote on more of the same nothing I've gotten for nearly three decades. I've aready doomed my agenda by believing the establishment's empty promises about helping people who aren't well off. It's time to try something different.
So...you are casting your ballot for Trump. And yes, if you sit out that's exactly what you're doing. I'm a progressive, too, and I'm not happy with Biden as the Democratic candidate. I would have voted for Warren but by the time the primary got to my state she was already gone. A lot of the problems with how we pick our candidates is that stupid states like Iowa and New Hampshire get to basically decide, so we often have no chance to pick other candidates by the time the primary arrives in other more progressive states. That has to be partly to blame for how we ended up with Biden.
Change mostly happens incrementally. I, for one, want to continue to move forward, even if it is at a slower rate than I would like to see, than to advocate for Trump's reelection so he can destroy the country so the change you HOPE would follow will happen. It could end up going the other way, though, and leave us worse off than we are now, and you know that's possible given who is in control right now.
So...you are casting your ballot for Trump. And yes, if you sit out that's exactly what you're doing. I'm a progressive, too, and I'm not happy with Biden as the Democratic candidate. I would have voted for Warren but by the time the primary got to my state she was already gone. A lot of the problems with how we pick our candidates is that stupid states like Iowa and New Hampshire get to basically decide, so we often have no chance to pick other candidates by the time the primary arrives in other more progressive states. That has to be partly to blame for how we ended up with Biden.
Change mostly happens incrementally. I, for one, want to continue to move forward, even if it is at a slower rate than I would like to see, than to advocate for Trump's reelection so he can destroy the country so the change you HOPE would follow will happen. It could end up going the other way, though, and leave us worse off than we are now, and you know that's possible given who is in control right now.
I'm not willing to risk that. But that's just me.
That poster's thinking seems to be "we must destroy the country in order to save it".
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